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Joe Nameth Spinoff Thread: personality trumps stats. Name your examples
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:01 pm
Reading the Nameth thread made me ponder the role personality plays in how we rate our athletes. I totally understand that media exposure, endorsements, etc, will effect the way the public views individual athletes, but it shouldn't translate to professional accolades.
Name your examples of athletes (in any sport) where their likeability got them into the Hall of Fame, pro bowls, All-Star teams, etc, despite others being more worthy.
I'll give you a case in point where flash and showmanship has been unfairly rewarded at the expense of the quiet, "just do your job" type .Consider the following example.
Wide Receiver A (tons of personality, marketed himself into a household name through television appearances, acting, sideline antics, etc.):
10 seasons played
Average yards per game- 66.6
Average 20+ yards receptions per season- 14.1
Total 1,000 yard seasons- 7
Total touchdowns in 10 seasons- 67
Career Pro Bowls- 6
Wide Receiver B (reserved, limited/no television appearances, high character, respected by peers and teammates):
9 seasons played
Average yards per game- 69.5
Average 20+ yards receptions a season- 14.6
Total 1,000 yard seasons- 6
Total touchdowns in 9 seasons- 68
Career Pro Bowls: ZERO
Note: Wide Receiver A was an awesome athlete and certainly had a few pro-bowl worthy seasons. He was marketable off the field but productive on it as well. I don't begrudge him. But for Wide Receiver B to never appear in a pro-bowl seems like an injustice.
Name your examples of athletes (in any sport) where their likeability got them into the Hall of Fame, pro bowls, All-Star teams, etc, despite others being more worthy.
I'll give you a case in point where flash and showmanship has been unfairly rewarded at the expense of the quiet, "just do your job" type .Consider the following example.
Wide Receiver A (tons of personality, marketed himself into a household name through television appearances, acting, sideline antics, etc.):
10 seasons played
Average yards per game- 66.6
Average 20+ yards receptions per season- 14.1
Total 1,000 yard seasons- 7
Total touchdowns in 10 seasons- 67
Career Pro Bowls- 6
Wide Receiver B (reserved, limited/no television appearances, high character, respected by peers and teammates):
9 seasons played
Average yards per game- 69.5
Average 20+ yards receptions a season- 14.6
Total 1,000 yard seasons- 6
Total touchdowns in 9 seasons- 68
Career Pro Bowls: ZERO
Note: Wide Receiver A was an awesome athlete and certainly had a few pro-bowl worthy seasons. He was marketable off the field but productive on it as well. I don't begrudge him. But for Wide Receiver B to never appear in a pro-bowl seems like an injustice.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:02 pm to ClientNumber9
Pro Bowls have certainly become a popularity contest over the years.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:03 pm to ClientNumber9
Time period is important. Did those two play at the same time?
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:04 pm to ClientNumber9
Pro bowls are a terrible way to argue a players worth on either side of the coin
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:12 pm to ClientNumber9
I can't say colston has ever been snubbed by the pro bowl
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:14 pm to SwaggerCopter
quote:
Time period is important. Did those two play at the same time?
Yes. Most of their careers overlapped.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:20 pm to ClientNumber9
A- Chad Johnson
B- Marques Colston
And yes, Colston was snubbed a few times.
B- Marques Colston
And yes, Colston was snubbed a few times.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:21 pm to ClientNumber9
Chad Johnson
Marques Colston
Marques Colston
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:23 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Pro bowls are a terrible way to argue a players worth on either side of the coin
When discussing professional accomplishments, there aren't many other ways to quantify successes. You pretty much have pro bowl appearances and whether or not they got into the HOF. But if you're looking strictly as a lens for how professionals view their peer group and who is better than who, there's not much else.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:24 pm to 3HourTour
quote:
A- Chad Johnson B- Marques Colston
Yes. So what are some other examples?
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:25 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
But if you're looking strictly as a lens for how professionals view their peer group and who is better than who, there's not much else.
All-Pro
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:25 pm to ClientNumber9
If we're doing a peronality to performance ratio then Manning really is the GOAT
Freddie Mitchell is the all time worst
Freddie Mitchell is the all time worst
Posted on 3/27/15 at 3:32 pm to ClientNumber9
Derek Jeter
Famous because he's a Yankee and made 2 extremely overrated plays.
Famous because he's a Yankee and made 2 extremely overrated plays.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 4:01 pm to Dale Murphy
quote:
Derek Jeter
Agreed. He's the mayor of Compiler-ville.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 5:49 pm to ClientNumber9
Outside of Rivera, all those Yankees were not super elite individual players (Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Petitte, Mussina, O'Neill).
Combined, they were unstoppable. So they were overrated as individuals because of their team play.
Combined, they were unstoppable. So they were overrated as individuals because of their team play.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:09 pm to ClientNumber9
Kirby Puckett. I know he had the eye issue which cut his career short but was he really deserving of being a first ballot HOFer? If you look at the ten most similar batters to Puckett, only one of them is a HOFer. He is 23rd all-time among CFs in WAR behind players lie Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds and Johnny Damon. He's 23rd all-time in WAR7 which measures the seven best WAR seasons by player behind the likes of Andruw Jones, Carlos Beltran, Kenny Lofton and Jim Edmonds. And if you compare his numbers to Bernie Williams, they're very similar. OPS+ is very close, their WAR is very similar, and there's very little difference in career numbers or their stats using their 162 game average. Plus Bernie was a brilliant postseason performer so you can't use the postseason argument against him in Puckett's favor. So why was one a 1st ballot HOFer and the other off the ballot after one year?
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:27 pm to Bench McElroy
At the very end of his career, Every Roger Clemens start was a celebrated media event.
Meanwhile, at the exact same time, Greg Maddux want into a Witness Protection after his 300th win and was completely ignored, even though he wound up with more wins.
Meanwhile, at the exact same time, Greg Maddux want into a Witness Protection after his 300th win and was completely ignored, even though he wound up with more wins.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:30 pm to DelU249
quote:
Freddie Mitchell is the all time worst
I know a chick that tossed his salad!
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:46 pm to ClientNumber9
Pete Rose
Ozzie Smith
Ozzie Smith
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 7:01 pm to lsutigers1992
quote:
At the very end of his career, Every Roger Clemens start was a celebrated media event.
Meanwhile, at the exact same time, Greg Maddux want into a Witness Protection after his 300th win and was completely ignored, even though he wound up with more wins.
their post 300 wins careers were quite different
Maddux had back to back losing seasons with Cubs, finished at .500 in the two years in San Diego, went a combined 8&7 in two stints with the Dodgers.
Clemens went to 3 all-star games, won his 7th CY Young, then led the league in ERA the following season, never had a losing season.
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