- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: What would you say to a Yazidi woman raped by ISIS who wanted an abortion?
Posted on 12/14/14 at 7:53 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 12/14/14 at 7:53 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
That is a goal of being a parent. Being a Christian parent means preparing them to survive in a sinful world and glorify God by how you live your life.
No. Believe me. Those ISIS thugs...they believe they are glorifying their version of the sky god through their actions.
The world is not sinful...the majority of us are very moral. People like you, who like to judge others and tell the rest of us how to live...yea...pretty evil actually.
quote:
"Because I said so" is not an acceptable reason for telling my kids not to do something.
well there is that..there is hope for you...unless of course you tell them because god will send them to an eternity of pain in hell...
which of course is stupid...but cling to your text written by old men with beards 2000 years ago.
2
Posted on 12/14/14 at 7:55 pm to mahdragonz
quote:Waiting for the Biblical translation there.
An unborn fetus in Jewish law is not considered a person
Jewish Bioethics
nefesh, lit. “soul”) until it has been born. The fetus is regarded as a part of the mother’s body and not a separate being until it begins to egress from the womb during parturition (childbirth). In fact, until forty days after conception, the fertilized egg is considered as “mere fluid.” These facts form the basis for the Jewish legal view on abortion. Biblical, talmudic, and rabbinic support for these statements will now be presented.
Take your time.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:00 pm to Sentrius
quote:
Seeing a little life grow to full term is just an incredibly beautiful and awesome thing to see and people who want to throw that away for convenience are just people I do not want to associate with as they are abandoning personal responsibility and being very cold and callous.
I really do despise abortion, but the more facts I read about abortion and what it's done for society as a whole, the more I come to think its a necessary evil for a sane society. These kids who are aborted for the most part shouldn't have been conceived in the first place. I really think society would be ridiculously more chaotic if Roe Vs Wade didn't pass abortions.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:03 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:You're talking about the supernatural, which is fine, except the principles I live by apply to us mortals and interactions with each other.
No chief. It is not ridiculous to discuss. Insofar as we believe immortals have used human conduits to reproduce, it is not remotely ridiculous.
quote:I don't know enough about it to to say one way or the other. I'd assume it isn't possible, but it may be. At this time, it doesn't matter since we were talking about one human raping another and creating a third human. I'm actually quite "over" discussion of the unknown hypotheticals, so I'd like to move back on to the previous discussion.
Perhaps so. Perhaps not.
Would you contend the concept of interspecies reproduction is thoroughly inconceivable?
quote:We're talking about some strange hypothetical where Satan is either conceiving or being conceived as a child and whether or not it should be aborted to save the world. Even as a hypothetical, it is a bit different than how God normally interacts with His creation. All the supernatural stuff outlined in the Bible is just that: supernatural. God normally uses natural means to bring about His will.
There you geaux again.
How does that logic not apply across the human experience?
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:07 pm to OMLandshark
quote:This is a great example of why actual study of the Bible is important for those who wish to discuss it. You aren't even aware of how ridiculous your statement is here because you don't even know the difference between the the civil, ceremonial, and moral law of God, nor what they were intended for. But keep on using that worn-out argument
Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear multiple fabric clothing? Would you sell your daughter off to her rapist.... actually you said you would do that. Touche, I completely believe you take the bible literally. Now just stone a homosexual or someone who uses the Lord's name in vain, and you'll fit right in with the 6th century.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:If you want to have a serious discussion about it, I figured we could do it outside of this medium where trolls won't interfere.
Why?
Seriously, why via email?
quote:God told Abraham to sacrifice his son as a test of faith, which God was never going to allow to be completed. Isaac wasn't killed.
God obviously considered asking a father to sacrifice his son.
Then he sacrificed his own son.
Jesus had to die to save everyone from their sins. Technically, the Romans killed Jesus at the behest of the Jewish leaders. It was another example of the mixture of God's sovereignty (His plan to have Jesus sacrifice Himself to save others) and man's responsibility (the people who put Jesus to death were guilty of sin). Nowhere in the narrative were the Romans praised for what they did.
quote:Dying natural of old age or by "accident" isn't sinful. Murder is.
We all die. What is the difference between death via abortion, death via tragedy, and death at longevity?
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:14 pm to mahdragonz
quote:Perhaps you'd like to talk about this elsewhere, too., or at least in a different thread. This one is supposed to be about rape leading to abortion.
Ok, so all of this about gods law is pretty not accurate.
Gods law is that the Old Testament is what is part of Jewish faith and in that case, the soul doesn't enter the body until birth. That's why the Jewish religion doesn't have a problem with abortion.
The New Testament says nothing about abortion.
Everything that is being said about gods will is inaccurate.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Dying natural of old age or by "accident" isn't sinful. Murder is.
But do you understand that you can't murder a fetus?
It's not alive in the biological or spiritual sense.
Therefore you can't murder (or kill) what is not alive.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:16 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
the more facts I read about abortion and what it's done for society as a whole, the more I come to think its a necessary evil for a sane society. These kids who are aborted for the most part shouldn't have been conceived in the first place. I really think society would be ridiculously more chaotic if Roe Vs Wade didn't pass abortions.
Oh don't get me wrong I understand the net positive that abortion has been for society including being by and large behind the statistical decrease in crime, especially violent crime. Freakonomics made a great argument as to that and I understand it and accept it. Hell, even the very founder of planned parenthood started the organization as a means to eliminate undesirables and future trash of society.
But that's all it is as a net positive. It doesn't change my view that abortion for demand/convenience as a singular act is bad on its face as a malicious and unempathetic act on the part of the one choosing to do the abortion.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:18 pm to Sentrius
quote:Let me put it this way: if what I believe is true about murder being immoral and abortion (in general) being murder (and thus, immoral), then why should I care how I am viewed here?
I feel that you're a victim of letting your religious beliefs and spiritual dogma completely overrule any sense of, pragmatism, reality and of the real world and thus has turned you into probably the most hardcore pro lifer ever known to this board.
quote:We have laws against murder. If abortion (in general) is murder, then logically it makes sense to outlaw it. It's not irrational by any means.
There's nothing wrong with being that focused on your beliefs but it's just misplaced and certainly should not be forced on others and and set as public policy in any way wherever it may be.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:19 pm to mahdragonz
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:23 pm to imjustafatkid
Um. LINK
again, the fetus is not a person when in the womb, but here the fetus becomes a person once the head or greater part of the body has emerged.
again, the fetus is not a person when in the womb, but here the fetus becomes a person once the head or greater part of the body has emerged.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:That's an irrational statement. Even if you believe me to be wrong about God's will being done even in tragic situations that doesn't mean I'm incapable of having a rational debate about something. Perhaps you can choose something other than plagues and pestilence and God's will to discuss.
And this is really the point I'm getting at. The kind of person who can believe this cannot be reasoned with. If you can convince yourself that children starving to death as parasites ravage their intestines in Africa is part of God's good will, then it simply is not possible to rationally debate things.
quote:I enjoy the debate. I also enjoy sharing information with others who have most likely never been exposed to the worldview I have. Apparently I'm the most extreme person ever on the history of this board with my view of abortion, even though my position is more common than some of you would like to think.
It's relevant to this thread because we now sit here at 17 pages and it really seems pointless when you say things like this. Why even bother if you openly admit your position on matters such as these cannot and will not be changed? If no amount of debate, evidence and rational thought provocation can make you even so much as second guess things, why waste your time or ours?
How many people here really are willing to change their positions on things? How often does it happen? Not often, I'd wager. I honestly don't expect to change any minds here. I'm here to discuss things for the sake of discussion.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:27 pm to mahdragonz
Which by the way circles back that religiously, a yazidi woman probably wouldn't have a real moral dilemma since the faith system slightly overlaps or is parallel depending on how you look at it. But bc if the lack of sound medical facilities she would not be able to.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:27 pm to asurob1
quote:
People like you, who like to judge others and tell the rest of us how to live...yea...pretty evil actually.
If declaring the actions of another as immoral is evil then declaring the act of judgement as evil is likewise evil for you are judging the one who judges. It could be said that you are telling him that he should not judge. You would then be telling him how to live his life. If your statement holds then you fall on your own sword for if he is evil then so are you.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:29 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
mahdragonz
You said the Old Testament doesn't say people have a soul before being born. I linked a verse from the Old Testament that directly contradicts that view, and you link an opinion piece?
It seems honest discussion isn't to be had here.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:30 pm to dawg2357
you've been killing it with dissecting the logic herePosted on 12/14/14 at 8:33 pm to asurob1
quote:I'm sure they think that's the case. I'm sure you'll find our different ways of glorifying have very different practical applications in this world.
No. Believe me. Those ISIS thugs...they believe they are glorifying their version of the sky god through their actions.
quote:By what standard? By God's standard, everyone (including myself) is sinful. Ever stolen anything? Every lied?
The world is not sinful...the majority of us are very moral. People like you, who like to judge others and tell the rest of us how to live...yea...pretty evil actually.
quote:Why do you care what I say to them, anyway? Why is what I say right or wrong in your worldview?
well there is that..there is hope for you...unless of course you tell them because god will send them to an eternity of pain in hell...
quote:If it's the truth, I'll certainly cling to it. Thanks.
which of course is stupid...but cling to your text written by old men with beards 2000 years ago.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:36 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
quote: mahdragonz You said the Old Testament doesn't say people have a soul before being born. I linked a verse from the Old Testament that directly contradicts that view, and you link an opinion piece? It seems honest discussion isn't to be had here.
It said god knew you in the womb before being born. It doesn't say anything about a soul.
The essence of a person occurs after birth according to that quote.
Think of it this way. It's like being in love. Everyone imagines what's it like to be in love. But real, actual love has to be with an actual
Person. Until then, it's just a thought.
A person doesn't become a person with a soul until they are born. To God and religious people alike.
Which is why abortion for rape is not moral problem for rational people.
Posted on 12/14/14 at 8:39 pm to mahdragonz
quote:Yes, you can murder an unborn child that is alive.
But do you understand that you can't murder a fetus?
It's not alive in the biological or spiritual sense.
Therefore you can't murder (or kill) what is not alive.
Page 19 of 20
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News