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re: A Question About Dogfighting in Top Gun

Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:19 am to
Posted by East Coast Band
Member since Nov 2010
63027 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:19 am to
Please tell me you don't watch Top Gun for the beach volleyball scene.
Posted by epbart
new york city
Member since Mar 2005
2936 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:22 am to
Young Val Kilmer bears a resemblance to Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone.

To the OP: It's doubtful you could extract anything useful out of that scene to understand who should've done what. There's probably a couple of actual dogfighting concepts employed in the creation of the scene, but the scene (as I remember it) is more a mashup of various points of view. If you could view the presumed scene from the ground you might be able to dissect everyone's role the way a coach dissects a football play in the film room. But I don't think that'll work with the movie... it would be like a football coach having nothing but footage from two or three helmet cams on the field to gameplan with.

If you're really inclined to study, google "aerial dogfighting tactics" or similar, read up a couple pages, then re-watch. You may learn more that way than just accepting a dogmatic response like "stick with your wingman". Fundamentals and dogma are important in becoming the best in a given field... but then again, part of our cultural mythology is to appreciate the genius of the hero who knows when to creatively/instinctively abandon fundamentals-- hence the popularity of successful rule-breaking characters like the almost unironically named Maverick, Capt. Kirk, etc.
Posted by cleeveclever
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2008
2046 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:23 am to
What's going on in this thread
This post was edited on 9/24/20 at 8:18 pm
Posted by BRgetthenet
Member since Oct 2011
117769 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:24 am to
Do you even know what the hard deck was?

That's pretty frickin important for this argument.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:24 am to
I dont know the answer to this but I do know that my 4th grade teachers husband flew in Top Gun. His dad owned an air service company in Houma.

I know that guy, his call sign is Organ. I think he did some flying in "The Final Countdown" too.
Posted by DawgCountry
Great State of GA
Member since Sep 2012
30620 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:26 am to
My dad's boss was a Top Gun instructor and flew one of the jets in the movie
Posted by BRgetthenet
Member since Oct 2011
117769 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:26 am to
I'm guessing he never broke any major rules of engagement.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:36 am to
quote:

 his call sign is Organ. 


Wonder how he got that one?
Posted by jdd48
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2012
22173 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:38 am to
quote:

Please tell me you don't watch Top Gun for the beach volleyball scene.


Yeaaaa - playin' with the boys baby.

Can you imagine that conversation with Kenny Loggins? We need you to record this really gay song for all male volleyball scene of this really gay movie.
Posted by Envy
Garden District
Member since Mar 2011
1941 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:40 am to
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:41 am to
quote:

Wonder how he got that one?


last name is same as a musical instrument manufacturer, sometimes there's not a great depth of imagination when assigning call signs
used to fly with a guy whose last name is Hope -call sign "Noah," they really had to dig deep to come up with that one
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:42 am to
Posted by blue_morrison
Member since Jan 2013
5167 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:44 am to
quote:

he never broke any major rules of engagement


Cleared to engage... my heart
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:49 am to
quote:

last name is same as a musical instrument manufacturer, sometimes there's not a great depth of imagination when assigning call signs 

I thought you were going to tell me he had a huge dick
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:53 am to
quote:

I thought you were going to tell me he had a huge dick


nah, he was Navy
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
71696 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 11:53 am to
quote:

Yeah but I'm sure that scenario is a pretty common one in aerial combat. I was wondering what they actually should do there.



It creates a daisy chain of sorts.
Posted by WestlakeTiger
San Antonio, Tejas
Member since Feb 2012
9447 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 12:30 pm to
Maverick would go into evasive engagement mode.

That and find the softest spot of earth to place his jet because once an adaquate enemy gains your six, you're fricked anyway.

I could throw lots of dogfighting jargon around but it all boils down to how good said pilots are in the engagement.

A big part of the Top Gun curriculum now is evading enemy radar and getting you and your WO or EWO out of a bind. But there are G-Limits and harddeck/ceiling limitations on maneuvers for safety reasons.
This post was edited on 8/2/14 at 12:35 pm
Posted by LSUTigers1986
Member since Mar 2014
1336 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

So my question is: What should Maverick had done there?

Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
98732 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

My understanding is that most IRL dogfights in the jet age have been short turning fights where you are trying to make a smaller turn radius than the other guy on order to get in a shot.


True up through the Vietnam era. The infrequent AA combat since then has mostly been one guy getting a missile off before the other guy knew he was there.
Posted by WestlakeTiger
San Antonio, Tejas
Member since Feb 2012
9447 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

True up through the Vietnam era. The infrequent AA combat since then has mostly been one guy getting a missile off before the other guy knew he was there.


Boom.
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