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re: Why are ship captains still expected to go down with ship
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:48 am to CaptainsWafer
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:48 am to CaptainsWafer
quote:
Request name change to JumpingTheShip submitted.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:49 am to mizzoukills
quote:
It just seems like a barbaric expectation. It's almost like saying to the captain, "if your ship goes down, you die regardless if people are still on board or not....or forever be labeled a coward."
Nah. I think responsible is a better way to put it... It's his responsibility to make sure that in emergency situations that he's delegating and giving out the proper orders to ensue everyone's safety... If the captain isn't on the ship giving the orders during the chaos who will be...
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:51 am to mizzoukills
here's a good summary from reddit/r/askhistorians
The role of the Captain is to the "Merchant Marine Officers Handbook" is to ensure the safety and wellbeing of his passengers or crew, the idea that the captain must go down with the ship is slightly untrue. He must ensure that every one else is safely evacuated first before leaving himself. In the US navy and coast guard there is a similar order, saying that the Captain must be the last one to leave.
I am relying on a source written by an American so unfortunately I can't say much for certain but I would imagine this applies to other navies around the world, as evacuating a ship with a thousand plus people on it requires a great deal of organisation, thusly requiring the captain's presence.
The stigma is with not ensuring that your crew and passengers are properly taken care of first rather than with not dying with the ship.This source has some really good stories of captains praised for their efforts who survived
LINK
As for where it came from it doesn't really go too far back in history, I mean I am not an expert in martime history but given that the vast majority of sailors could not swim boats were not equipped nor trained for evacuation. By the time it came to abandoning ship most were resigned to their fates and the tales that followed were more of a romantic reimagination of the terrors of naval warfare than an actual law.
The role of the Captain is to the "Merchant Marine Officers Handbook" is to ensure the safety and wellbeing of his passengers or crew, the idea that the captain must go down with the ship is slightly untrue. He must ensure that every one else is safely evacuated first before leaving himself. In the US navy and coast guard there is a similar order, saying that the Captain must be the last one to leave.
I am relying on a source written by an American so unfortunately I can't say much for certain but I would imagine this applies to other navies around the world, as evacuating a ship with a thousand plus people on it requires a great deal of organisation, thusly requiring the captain's presence.
The stigma is with not ensuring that your crew and passengers are properly taken care of first rather than with not dying with the ship.This source has some really good stories of captains praised for their efforts who survived
LINK
As for where it came from it doesn't really go too far back in history, I mean I am not an expert in martime history but given that the vast majority of sailors could not swim boats were not equipped nor trained for evacuation. By the time it came to abandoning ship most were resigned to their fates and the tales that followed were more of a romantic reimagination of the terrors of naval warfare than an actual law.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:51 am to Yat27
quote:
Hundreds of children on board, and he is one of the first to leave the boat
wasn't he in the ONLY life boat to leave the ship?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:51 am to LSU alum wannabe
Went down like a boss...
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:51 am to mizzoukills
William Lewis Herndon, USN LINK
quote:
After two years of active service on Potomac and San Jacinto, Herndon was assigned in 1855 as commander of the Atlantic Mail Steamship Company steamer SS Central America, on the New York to Aspinwall, Panama run. Navy captains were assigned to command the mail steamers on the Atlantic and Pacific runs; the ships were operated and maintained by companies under contract to the federal government. At the time, such mail steamers transported large quantities of gold from the California gold fields to cities on the East Coast and the US Mint in Philadelphia. (Central America had recently been renamed from George Law. Aspinwall was an English name for Colón, Panama.)
Herndon was carrying perhaps 15 tons of gold (then worth $2,000,000) and 474 passengers, many of whom were from California and were returning to the East Coast, as well as 101 crew members. After leaving Cuba on 7 September 1857, a few days later, they encountered a three-day hurricane off Cape Hatteras. The hurricane steadily increased in force. By the 12th, the Central America was shipping water through several leaks due to the ship's lack of water-tight bulkheads and general unseaworthiness. Water in her hold put out her boiler fires, precluding the use of steam both for controlling the ship and pumping out the bilges.[2]
Herndon recognized that his ship was doomed; he flew its flag upside down as a distress signal and hoped another ship would see them. At 2 p.m., the West Indian brig Marine arrived to help take passengers from the stricken steamer. It did not have room to take on all of the passengers and crew. Commander Herndon supervised the difficult loading of women and children into lifeboats to transfer to the Marine. He gave one of the women passengers his watch to send to his wife, saying that he could not leave the ship while there was a soul on board. Most of the women and children reached safety on the Marine. Herndon's concern for his passengers and crew helped save 152 of the 575 people on board.[1]
Men on the Central America tried to break up wooden parts to use as floats, in hopes of surviving the sinking. Some were rescued later by passing vessels, but most of the 423 persons on board died, in what was the largest loss of life for a commercial ship in United States history.[2] Survivors of the disaster reported last seeing Commander Herndon in full uniform, standing by the wheelhouse with his hand on the rail, hat off and in his hand, with his head bowed in prayer as the ship gave a lurch and went down.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:51 am to mizzoukills
quote:
if your ship goes down, you die regardless if people are still on board or not....or forever be labeled a coward."
Psh, if I was a captain I would give no fricks about what people thought.
"hey man, you're a coward bc you didn't sink with your ship"
"Hey, I'm alive shithead. I win"
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:52 am to CaptainsWafer
i ate lunch within earshot of 5 women watching cnn yesterday and the story came on and they were OUTRAGED that he wasnt the LAST one off the ship.
they had no idea his conduct but were adamant that he should essentially get a death sentence
they had no idea his conduct but were adamant that he should essentially get a death sentence
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:54 am to iluvdatiger
quote:
wasn't he in the ONLY life boat to leave the ship?
I didn't know that. I think there were 179 survivors.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 7:58 am to Yat27
A lot of them were picked up by rescue boats, though. They were either picked up hanging on the side of the ship or jumped in the water. I didn't see any lifeboats in the video I watched. Most of the casualties were below deck and couldn't get out once the ship listed too far over.. Apparently there was no evacuation order. There were reports of announcements that passengers should stay in their cabins.
This post was edited on 4/18/14 at 7:59 am
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:00 am to mizzoukills
quote:
Why are ship captains still expected to go down with ship
B/c if you don't, the USCG will definitely take you down.....E.g. - Captain Kuchta and the Deepwater Horizon
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:03 am to mizzoukills
Ship captains are not literally expected to go down with the ship and never have been. But they are expected to have the final responsibility of ensuring everyone is accounted for.
This is also true for airline pilots, btw. For example, Sullenberger reentered his plane as it was sinking in the Hudson to make a last check for passengers, and was the last person to exit.
This is also true for airline pilots, btw. For example, Sullenberger reentered his plane as it was sinking in the Hudson to make a last check for passengers, and was the last person to exit.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:40 am to mizzoukills
The idea is that he is last to get off and if that isn't possible, he should remain on board to get as many off as possible. Unlike passengers, he has the training and ability to save more lives than anybody else. Not to mention that in many cases it was his decisions that got the ship in danger.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:47 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
Hey, I'm alive shithead. I win"
And you'll be in jail for a very long time.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:51 am to C
quote:
And you'll be in jail for a very long time.
Dying lasts pretty long as well.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:53 am to C
quote:
And you'll be in jail for a very long time.
And with the mass amount of children who died, his life expectancy in prison wouldn't expect to be very long. He's a dead man walking by leaving first.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:54 am to AU4real35
quote:
Nah. I think responsible is a better way to put it... It's his responsibility to make sure that in emergency situations that he's delegating and giving out the proper orders to ensue everyone's safety... If the captain isn't on the ship giving the orders during the chaos who will be...
This you pu**y's. Why does this generation question every got damn thing Jesus. The man is paid the most to "lead" the ships crew. How can he lead on a damn life boat? Of course this generation wouldn't know about leaders leading and that's not your fault that's your bitc# dad's fault which h is in my generation.......wait.....to hell with it LMAO. Happy Friday Bitches!!!!
Posted on 4/18/14 at 8:57 am to GeeOH
Seriously, if you are on a ship in todays world owned by some money making company and a flaw in their work makes a ship go down...frick that, I give the ole "abandon ship" order and I am OUT.
I understand he is in command, but when a ship is rolling over and sinking at the rate this thing did, it's dumb to think there is anything else he can do and should die also.
But I will say this, if that motherfricker did something out of protocol and helped this thing wreck, he should be brought back out there today and stuck back in a hole in the ship!
I understand he is in command, but when a ship is rolling over and sinking at the rate this thing did, it's dumb to think there is anything else he can do and should die also.
But I will say this, if that motherfricker did something out of protocol and helped this thing wreck, he should be brought back out there today and stuck back in a hole in the ship!
Posted on 4/18/14 at 9:00 am to Liberty tiger13
quote:
This you pu**y's. Why does this generation question every got damn thing Jesus. The man is paid the most to "lead" the ships crew. How can he lead on a damn life boat? Of course this generation wouldn't know about leaders leading and that's not your fault that's your bitc# dad's fault which h is in my generation.......wait.....to hell with it LMAO. Happy Friday Bitches!!!!
Can I get a translation?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 9:06 am to TheOcean
It was a joke relax kid relax!!
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