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Message

French wine scam uncovered
Posted on 2/23/10 at 11:15 am
Posted on 2/23/10 at 11:15 am
And proves every point I've ever made about blind taste-testing. Namely, you suckas can't tell shite:
LINK
quote:
On Wednesday, a court in southwest France found 12 wine producers guilty of fraud for selling millions of gallons of fake Pinot Noir to America’s E. & J. Gallo Winery, among others. The producers received suspended prison sentences and tens of thousands of Euros in fines. French customs officials figured out the scam, according to the BBC, when they noted that the amount of Pinot Noir being sold to Gallo exceeded the amount produced in the region. But would anyone have figured it out otherwise?
The scheme ran for years. But, as one French winemaker’s lawyer sniffed to the BBC: “Not a single American consumer complained.”
And why would they have? While this fraud may be grabbing headlines, less noticed is the overarching fraud that underpins the entire wine industry: The idea that the average consumer — or even wine experts — can reliably tell the difference between higher- and lower-quality wines.
quote:
But what about real experts? What about professional sommeliers and judges in respected wine competitions? What about reviewers for prestigious wine magazines? Well, they’re full of it, too. Take two articles published recently in the Journal of Wine Economics, both by a retired statistician and active winemaker, Robert Hodgson. In one experiment, Mr. Hodgson served 100 wines to actual California State Fair Wine Competition judges, over the course of four years. The tastings were blind, and each judge was presented the same wine three times, each time from the same exact bottle. What Mr. Hodgson found was remarkable: On a 20-point rating scale, from 80-100, judges typically varied in their ratings of the same wine by plus-or-minus four points. The same wine could be rated a 90, an 86, and a 94, all by the same judge in the same year. Only about 10% of judges stayed within two points — and those judges weren’t the same judges year-to-year, meaning it was more likely chance than skill that led to their greater accuracy.
LINK
Posted on 2/23/10 at 11:26 am to Tiger JJ
I'm shocked people would engage in such fraud...

Posted on 2/23/10 at 11:27 am to Tiger JJ
Oak Leaf from Walmark's tastes just fine to me.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 11:30 am to Tiger JJ
recently went to a blind wine tasting at a friends house. there were 9 or 10 different bottles of wine. everyone did a blind sampling of each wine and then graded it; at the end, people ranked the wines from least to most favorite. the result was the Trader Joe's two buck chuck (Charles Shaw) won by a landslide. we had about 20-25 people taking part, so there was a decent sample size.
The funny thing was that when they revealed the wines, one was a wine that my wife and i buy all the time and really like. but, in the blind test we had both given it a terrible score...
at the end of the day, people should just drink the wine that tastes good to them, regardless of price or source...
The funny thing was that when they revealed the wines, one was a wine that my wife and i buy all the time and really like. but, in the blind test we had both given it a terrible score...
at the end of the day, people should just drink the wine that tastes good to them, regardless of price or source...
Posted on 2/23/10 at 11:36 am to Tiger JJ
hence why i rarely ever pay more than $20 for a bottle of wine, no need.
Unfortunately, when i go to wineries and taste a few i figure out which one i like the best and it's often the most expensive when i ask the prices. But, i still rarely buy that one.
Unfortunately, when i go to wineries and taste a few i figure out which one i like the best and it's often the most expensive when i ask the prices. But, i still rarely buy that one.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 12:27 pm to Eddie Vedder
quote:
at the end of the day, people should just drink the wine that tastes good to them, regardless of price or source...
This is the best answer.
However, rarely do I drink too many of the same. There are so many wines out there in varied price ranges there you should try as many as you can. You have to have a bad one to appreciate the good ones.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 12:35 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
“Not a single American consumer complained.”
Posted on 2/23/10 at 12:38 pm to Eddie Vedder
quote:
people should just drink the wine that tastes good to them, regardless of price or source...
Exactly...
My two cents on the subject is that good wine, even great wine doesn't have to be expensive to be quality wine. A lot of that price is driven by how much is produced and how much put in to making such wine. It's not always better just becauce it's more money.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 12:53 pm to Tiger JJ
Good find. The French have been doing this for decades.
I don't understand this part of the article:
If the experiment was conducted over a longer period of time, then the wine from the same bottle would have deteriorated to the point where no reasonable person would expect the wine to taste the same as it had days or weeks or months before.
I don't understand this part of the article:
quote:During what time period was this experiment conducted? How were three samples from the same bottle given to judges? Over how long a period of time? If over a small period of time, I can tell you that when tasting multiple wine samples in one small period of time, eventually all wine tastes pretty much the same---bad. This is especially true of red wines because of the high tannin levels.
In one experiment, Mr. Hodgson served 100 wines to actual California State Fair Wine Competition judges, over the course of four years. The tastings were blind, and each judge was presented the same wine three times, each time from the same exact bottle.
If the experiment was conducted over a longer period of time, then the wine from the same bottle would have deteriorated to the point where no reasonable person would expect the wine to taste the same as it had days or weeks or months before.
This post was edited on 2/23/10 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 2/23/10 at 3:14 pm to Eddie Vedder
quote:
one was a wine that my wife and i buy all the time and really like. but, in the blind test we had both given it a terrible score.
So how do you even know you like it?
Posted on 2/23/10 at 3:19 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:just last night i told someone i wasnt above getting lots of cheap wine by the bottle. I was def snubbed by then. I just emailed them this article. i feel much better abouy my inability to distinguish tastes of many wines
nd proves every point I've ever made about blind taste-testing. Namely, you suckas can't tell shite:
Posted on 2/23/10 at 3:20 pm to el tigre
quote:maybe they just tell you that you had the more expensive one cuz they dont think people's palettes know the difference.
Unfortunately, when i go to wineries and taste a few i figure out which one i like the best and it's often the most expensive when i ask the prices. But, i still rarely buy that one.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 3:25 pm to colorchangintiger
Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed I like some wines better after I've finished the first half of the first glass, and then I tend to like it more than another wine, which I liked better at the first sip.
My point being, my mouth tastes the wines differently after it has had some wine swilled around in there. I tend to be much more tolerant of a stronger flavored wine after half a glass, than at first. This won't show up in a sip taste test.
I mostly drink Chardonnay, which to me can vary greatly from one vinyard to the next. A Chardonnay that I might consider more tart and crisp at the start might start to feel more mellow after I've down a glass. I have to remind myself of that when I take my first sip.
My point being, my mouth tastes the wines differently after it has had some wine swilled around in there. I tend to be much more tolerant of a stronger flavored wine after half a glass, than at first. This won't show up in a sip taste test.
I mostly drink Chardonnay, which to me can vary greatly from one vinyard to the next. A Chardonnay that I might consider more tart and crisp at the start might start to feel more mellow after I've down a glass. I have to remind myself of that when I take my first sip.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 3:32 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
A Chardonnay that I might consider more tart and crisp at the start might start to feel more mellow after I've down a glass. I have to remind myself of that when I take my first sip.
I notice this too. Just not that early. Normally around the third bottle.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 3:55 pm to Martini
watch the movie "bottleshock"
based on a true story and well done...
based on a true story and well done...
Posted on 2/23/10 at 4:05 pm to colorchangintiger
quote:
So how do you even know you like it?
because during the blind tasting, all of the wines where assigned a number. all you knew is that you were drinking wine # 7 or 4 or 2. when all of the rating was done, the wines names where revealed (i.e., they matched the name of the wine to the number). thus, we discovered that we had given a poor rating to a wine that we actually bought all the time...
Posted on 2/23/10 at 6:26 pm to Eddie Vedder
quote:
Trader Joe's two buck chuck (Charles Shaw) won by a landslide.
That can be viewed as a bad thing depending on what kind of people you are letting do this tasting. If you gave my mom a blind tasting of a $250 bottle of Opus One vs a $3 box wine, she would pick the sweet box wine. She has no taste at all.
Overall I agree with the idea that most people don't know as much as they think they do. I realized that fact again this weekend. I am usually a pretty low end wine drinker ($10 to $15 bottles), but I had some excellent steaks this weekend that I wanted a pretty good bottle to go with. I had a gift card for a local wine shop, so I went and got a $60 bottle of something that seemed promising. It really did nothing for me. Def. was not better than some of the lower end wines I have had lately. To think that the bottle would have been $140 or so on restaurant menus.
I generally get advise from folks on a few message boards and am lucky to have some good wine stores nearby. I learn about $10 to $15 wines that taste outstanding and could sell for $50 a bottle.
Today a local wine shop sent out a email blast of a bargain sale of two different bottles at $6 and $8 each. They sold out of 70 cases in roughly 3 hours.
You folks are right. Drink what taste good.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 6:52 pm to Eddie Vedder
quote:
people should just drink the wine that tastes good to them, regardless of price or source
This.
I did a blind champagne taste test once myself, and out of five glasses had a tough time choosing between the top two.
I'm glad to say that one of the two was Dom Perignon, and the ones I rated below that were in decreasing price order.
But the top one to my taste was a $5 bottle.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 7:49 pm to Tiger JJ
Damn, sounds like the financial services industry.
And this sounds like BBQ competition judging:
As others have mentioned, the best advice I ever received in Napa a long time ago was drink what you enjoy.
And this sounds like BBQ competition judging:
quote:
In another study, Mr. Hodgson looked at the probability of a wine winning a gold medal in one competition while not even placing in another. Looking at a sample of wines entered into at least five competitions, he found that the chances of a wine winning 0, 1, 2 or more gold medals in those competitions was roughly the same as if the competitions were determined by chance.
As others have mentioned, the best advice I ever received in Napa a long time ago was drink what you enjoy.
Posted on 2/23/10 at 8:00 pm to tirebiter
those 2 buck chuck blind taste tests have been done by 20/20 and other news orgs.
always the same thing..2 buck chuck wins as often as the other 'elite' $200/bottle wines.
i love it.
"percieved value" indeed. 'but its got a picture of a train on it that goes choo choo choo'
always the same thing..2 buck chuck wins as often as the other 'elite' $200/bottle wines.
i love it.
"percieved value" indeed. 'but its got a picture of a train on it that goes choo choo choo'
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