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Sazerac in talks with Brown Forman?
Posted on 4/9/26 at 5:31 pm
Posted on 4/9/26 at 5:31 pm
That’s what the WSJ says. Anyone know the details?
Posted on 4/9/26 at 8:12 pm to SloaneRanger
I will text Bill Goldring and let you know.
Posted on 4/9/26 at 8:16 pm to SloaneRanger
Alcohol; in general, is in a bad way. Americans are drinking less, Gen Z doesn’t drink and THC has entered the equation.
The boom in bourbon faded faster than expected and they’ve collectively overproduced on a positively massive scale. Some estimates suggest that every bourbon distillery could shut down tomorrow and it would take nearly a decade to go through what’s already in barrels at current consumption rates.
Sales are down and the distilleries know bankruptcies are coming. They’ll be able to buy barrels of aged juice for pennies on the dollar at liquidation. Now we’re at that point where closures (Kentucky Owl/Stoli and more) and consolidation/sales are happening. Four Roses to Gallo Wines being the most notable sale recently.
Brown Foreman has been in discussions with Pernod. Saz has entered the discussion. Saz wins either way. If they get BF at a good price they have virtually locked up bourbon in the US. In years past there would be anti-trust discussions. If their presence drives up the price for Pernod it’s still a victory of sorts for Saz.
The boom in bourbon faded faster than expected and they’ve collectively overproduced on a positively massive scale. Some estimates suggest that every bourbon distillery could shut down tomorrow and it would take nearly a decade to go through what’s already in barrels at current consumption rates.
Sales are down and the distilleries know bankruptcies are coming. They’ll be able to buy barrels of aged juice for pennies on the dollar at liquidation. Now we’re at that point where closures (Kentucky Owl/Stoli and more) and consolidation/sales are happening. Four Roses to Gallo Wines being the most notable sale recently.
Brown Foreman has been in discussions with Pernod. Saz has entered the discussion. Saz wins either way. If they get BF at a good price they have virtually locked up bourbon in the US. In years past there would be anti-trust discussions. If their presence drives up the price for Pernod it’s still a victory of sorts for Saz.
Posted on 4/9/26 at 8:18 pm to SloaneRanger
Tulane NIL about to be stacked.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 6:58 pm to SloaneRanger
I really hate the consolidation we're seeing in the industry. Buffalo Trace is already not consumer friendly, and more mergers isn't going to help.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 10:29 pm to wiltznucs
quote:
The boom in bourbon faded faster than expected
Ya know what happens when every single "good juice" is allocated and you can only find it for triple MSRP? People get tired of it really quick and move on to something else. Just so happens that something else was Delta 9 and its readably available and for a super attractive price.
Who knew that charging $150 for Weller was a bad idea when I can get a good buzz without a hangover for $25.
Posted on 4/12/26 at 5:39 am to wiltznucs
quote:
Alcohol; in general, is in a bad way. Americans are drinking less, Gen Z doesn’t drink and THC has entered the equation.
I'm really interested in watching this play out over the next 20 years as boomers truly die off. This goes for all alcohol businesses from beer to wine to bourbon.
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:34 am to thegreatboudini
Wine will be fine as long as you have middle class moms. 
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:13 am to thegreatboudini
Expect alcohol business to still be around but would be shocked if it’s not half the size it is now.
Unless, international markets become a saving grace.
Unless, international markets become a saving grace.
Posted on 4/12/26 at 12:41 pm to thegreatboudini
quote:
I'm really interested in watching this play out over the next 20 years as boomers truly die off. This goes for all alcohol businesses from beer to wine to bourbon.
It’s going to be wild. I’ve been in the alcohol industry for the past decade and exited last year. I still have many industry connections and keep up to the extent possible.
I think it’s important to remember that while what’s happening in the US is huge; it’s not necessarily a leading indicator of what’s going to happen elsewhere.
During my time I had the occasion to pour at events in South America, Europe, Asia and even Africa. Alcohol is woven deeply into the societal fabric in some countries. Alcohol consumption in places like the Czech Republic or the Baltics and former Soviet Bloc isn’t going anywhere. Mexicans aren’t giving up cerveza any time soon. The Spaniards will always have a relationship with red table wines.
Marijuana/THC while certainly gaining acceptance is still highly illegal in much of the world. So this substitution effect we’re seeing here isn’t necessarily a viable alternative elsewhere just yet.
I do agree with many others that the next decade or so is going to fundamentally reshape the alcohol business in the US. It’s why I got out. Although I also believe things are cyclical and what was once old always becomes new again as a future generation adopts it and puts their own spin on it.
Posted on 4/13/26 at 3:52 am to b-rab2
quote:
Wine will be fine as long as you have middle class moms
And it comes in a box instead of a bottle.
Posted on 4/13/26 at 7:12 am to Tarps99
I've read that Gen Z is not drinking like previous gens. So it understandable the consolidation. I don't like it, just as I don't like it in other industries. It is never good for the consumer.
This can't be true, can it? Consumption has dropped that much? Then I should be able to get some Stagg under 3x MSRP in DFW. LOL.
I've soured on Buffalo Trace Weller, Stagg, Old Fitz......I can't find it and its $250 if I do. I've enjoyed Bardstown, New Riff, Penelope wheated bourbons more than my Blantons and Weller 12.
ETA: If the bourbon market is tanking I hope the smaller craft places can stay in business or we will lose some quality bourbons.
quote:
Some estimates suggest that every bourbon distillery could shut down tomorrow and it would take nearly a decade to go through what’s already in barrels at current consumption rates.
This can't be true, can it? Consumption has dropped that much? Then I should be able to get some Stagg under 3x MSRP in DFW. LOL.
I've soured on Buffalo Trace Weller, Stagg, Old Fitz......I can't find it and its $250 if I do. I've enjoyed Bardstown, New Riff, Penelope wheated bourbons more than my Blantons and Weller 12.
ETA: If the bourbon market is tanking I hope the smaller craft places can stay in business or we will lose some quality bourbons.
This post was edited on 4/13/26 at 7:14 am
Posted on 4/13/26 at 8:09 am to jp4lsu
quote:
This can't be true, can it? Consumption has dropped that much? Then I should be able to get some Stagg under 3x MSRP in DFW
There is currently more bourbon in barrels than at any time in history. In Kentucky alone there’s an estimated 17 million barrels aging. That doesn’t even take into consideration what MGP has in Indiana and elsewhere. At the same time; per capita alcohol consumption is at its lowest point in recorded history outside of the prohibition era.
There’s definitely been some warning signs. Layoffs have hit Buffalo Trace, WhistlePig, Beam and Old Forrester to name just a few.
Kentucky Owl/Stoli is out of business. Old Elk liquidated and sold to avoid bankruptcy. Beam has shut down one of its distillery sites completely and laid off hundreds. Old Forrester closed their cooperage operations last year. In other words; they stopped making their own barrels. Which indicates that they intend to fill so few that simply buying them from someone else is more cost effective than supplying, maintaining and staffing their own operation.
Right now there’s a cat and mouse game being played. The large established producers know that once the dominoes start tumbling they’ll be able to buy already filled barrels for less than it may cost to make it themselves. We are going to be covered up in 8-10 year old bourbon in just a few years. For bourbon aficionados a positively gilded age is coming.
Where things get dicey is pricing. The distilleries are very much dependent on the high dollar bottles for their survival right now. That’s why you are being inundated with new labels, different proofs, new age statements, etc.
The price escalation is real and it’s turning a lot of people away from bourbon. As an example; I ran a bottle club and have purchased numerous barrels of bourbons over the years.
I bought an entire barrel of 15 year old Knob Creek and had it bottled at 120 Proof back in 2018. It produced a little more than 130 bottles. They cost me $24 each delivered. That’s easily a $150+ bottle now some 7-8 years later.
So there is a consumer group willing to pay the $200 price tag. What happens when those consumers figure out that the distillery bought the entire barrel used to make those bottles for $200 or less at a bankruptcy auction? Nobody likes the feeling of being ripped off. Could be interesting times ahead.
This post was edited on 4/13/26 at 9:39 am
Posted on 4/13/26 at 9:18 am to wiltznucs
This is an interesting conversation... My wife and I drove past this place in Ponchatoula over the weekend called LA Barnhouse Brewery. Beautiful brand new facility, looks like something you would see in Cali or Austin. Appearently not open yet.
I was thinking "allright, this is close to Gnarly Barley and not too far from Abita and Chafunta and will make for a nice little brewery tour on the Northshore. However, I was soon disappointed to hear the news as she read from their FB that the offerings will be Kombucha/THC and "Elixirs". (Butterfly Girl Kombucha, Metamorphosis Beverages & Blu Morpho Beverages), WTF, not one word about beer!
Too bad because the place looks awesome... We may go when it opens just to see but I don't see it working in Ponchatoula (actually closer to Robert). Seems like this would be more suited to the Marigny/Bywater in N.O.
I was thinking "allright, this is close to Gnarly Barley and not too far from Abita and Chafunta and will make for a nice little brewery tour on the Northshore. However, I was soon disappointed to hear the news as she read from their FB that the offerings will be Kombucha/THC and "Elixirs". (Butterfly Girl Kombucha, Metamorphosis Beverages & Blu Morpho Beverages), WTF, not one word about beer!
Too bad because the place looks awesome... We may go when it opens just to see but I don't see it working in Ponchatoula (actually closer to Robert). Seems like this would be more suited to the Marigny/Bywater in N.O.
Posted on 4/13/26 at 9:37 am to The Sicilian
quote:
However, I was soon disappointed to hear the news as she read from their FB that the offerings will be Kombucha/THC and "Elixirs". (Butterfly Girl Kombucha, Metamorphosis Beverages & Blu Morpho Beverages), WTF, not one word about beer!
Craft beer is not dead; but, it’s definitely on life support in many areas of the US. The industry is collectively pivoting towards a different business model which is a more synergistic approach that encompasses not only beer; but, often a restaurant plus a cocktail and NA program which often involves THC products. They are also leaning hard into becoming an event space. Stand up comedy, trivia night, local bands. Anything to get people in the door.
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