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I lived in Japan in 91-93. My favorite lunch is the same price today as it was then.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:16 am
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:16 am
There is a chain called Yoshinoya that is known for gyudon (beef bowl). A very simple meal of thinly sliced beef and onions constantly stewing in a broth and served over white rice. Very flavorful, especially with nanami togarashi (chili flakes) and tamago (raw egg). Great for a hangover.
Back then, the largest serving was 650 yen (a bit over $4). It still is.
I was there just as the bubble was breaking. I traveled there a lot through the rest of the decade (and some since), and it is definitely a different place. Back then, it was basically a badge of honor to pay more for something. Now, discounting is a thing.
Why does this matter, and how is it political?
In 1995, nominal per capita GDP (in USD) was 50% higher than in the US.
Japan: ~$42-44K
US: ~$28-29K
Today, that same metric is barely over 1/3 that of the US, and Japan has actually shrunk in that 30 years.
Japan: ~$33-35K
US: ~80-85K
Not sure I can point to a simple political angle to it. More cultural. Won't try to dissect that here. Part of it will be the homogeneous society thing, and people will say I am advocating for open borders. Far more complex than that.
Any way you want to explain it, though, Japan has regressed MASSIVELY since its peak.
This dovetailed with another stat I had seen where the UK per capita GDP was lower than Mississippi's.
Prompted me to create this graph on the FRED site. Indexes per capita GDP to 100 for 4 countries in 1995.
Not sure why, but the UK was doing really well until the 2008 crash. Since then, basically flat.
Germany is lower than I expected, reunification was a BIG hit for them. They have still lagged, but the big divergence seems to have been a function of bringing East Germany up to speed.
All this to say: When people want to whinge that the US is a basket case of failure, here is one piece of evidence to the contrary.
Back then, the largest serving was 650 yen (a bit over $4). It still is.
I was there just as the bubble was breaking. I traveled there a lot through the rest of the decade (and some since), and it is definitely a different place. Back then, it was basically a badge of honor to pay more for something. Now, discounting is a thing.
Why does this matter, and how is it political?
In 1995, nominal per capita GDP (in USD) was 50% higher than in the US.
Japan: ~$42-44K
US: ~$28-29K
Today, that same metric is barely over 1/3 that of the US, and Japan has actually shrunk in that 30 years.
Japan: ~$33-35K
US: ~80-85K
Not sure I can point to a simple political angle to it. More cultural. Won't try to dissect that here. Part of it will be the homogeneous society thing, and people will say I am advocating for open borders. Far more complex than that.
Any way you want to explain it, though, Japan has regressed MASSIVELY since its peak.
This dovetailed with another stat I had seen where the UK per capita GDP was lower than Mississippi's.
Prompted me to create this graph on the FRED site. Indexes per capita GDP to 100 for 4 countries in 1995.
Not sure why, but the UK was doing really well until the 2008 crash. Since then, basically flat.
Germany is lower than I expected, reunification was a BIG hit for them. They have still lagged, but the big divergence seems to have been a function of bringing East Germany up to speed.
All this to say: When people want to whinge that the US is a basket case of failure, here is one piece of evidence to the contrary.
10
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:21 am to Ag Zwin
It’s pretty easy to figure out, but you might want to label the dark green line as the US.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:26 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
There is a chain called Yoshinoya
They have locations in California. I doubt those prices have remained the same though.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:26 am to Ag Zwin
I saw a video about Japan's version of Disney World. It's as good as the one in the U.S. and less than half the price.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:26 am to Ag Zwin
I think that's a consequence of Japan's horrible demography and China emerging as a manufacturing powerhouse. Their economy has been stagnant for decades.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:29 am to Ag Zwin
does the price of this dish indicate the price of all else (c.o.l.) in japan has stayed the same?
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:31 am to Ag Zwin
The US is failing, but everyone else is failing even worse.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:33 am to kingbob
quote:
The US is failing, but everyone else is failing even worse.
And Covid exacerbated that divide.
We had shitty policies. Everyone else had worse policies from a position of weakness.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:48 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
known for gyudon (beef bowl)
2 lbs thinly sliced beef (ribeye or sirloin preferred)
2 large onions, thinly sliced
5 cups cooked white rice
1 cup soy sauce
1 cup dashi broth
4 tbsp mirin
2 tbsp sugar
1 tbsp sake
Toppings- soft-boiled egg and green onions chopped up, and pickled ginger
In a large pan, combine:
Dashi
Soy sauce
Mirin
Sugar
Sake
Bring to a gentle simmer.
Add onions to the broth
Simmer 5–7 minutes until soft and slightly sweet
Add beef in batches, so it doesn’t clump
Simmer 3–5 minutes until just cooked
Scoop rice into bowls
Spoon beef, onions, and broth over rice
Add the toppings
Worked part-time at an Asian restaurant years ago and kept the recipe. 
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:50 am to Ag Zwin
I was there then too. Hokka Hokka Bento and Mos Burger for the win.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:51 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
tamago (raw egg)
I thought this meant soft bowl… it does it the Asian noodle places
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:55 am to lepdagod
quote:
tamago (raw egg)
I thought this meant soft bowl… it does it the Asian noodle places
quote:
9 Tamagoyaki (Japanese Rolled Omelet) Recipe Tamago (? or ??) is the Japanese word for "egg". It is commonly used to refer to chicken eggs, both raw and cooked. It is often associated with tamagoyaki, a popular Japanese rolled omelet, or as a sushi topping, characterized by a sweet and savory taste.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:56 am to Pezzo
quote:
does the price of this dish indicate the price of all else (c.o.l.) in japan has stayed the same?
It's reasonably indicative, I think.
When I lived there, it was my first job out of grad school. Had not seen nearly as much of the world as I have now. Had spent some time in Europe, but that's about it. Didn't have as much to compare the differences to.
My impression then was that many things were stupid expensive. I didn't have to pay for it, but my apartment was a $500K condo in the suburbs of Osaka. I had friends that taught English and lived in the center of the city. A single bedroom in a communal apartment was about $600. If you found a place to buy a beer for less than $7, you stayed there all night. My boss had a membership at a couple of hostess bars. For me to just walk in the door was $100. I had some meals that were $3-400 per person.
Groceries were not too bad, but no bargains, either. Transportation was not too bad if you stuck to public transport (awesome systems).
It was more about their attitudes. They really thought that paying more something was better, even if you could get it cheaper. Ostentatious consumption, but not as "showy" as the Chinese tend to be.
Now, I watch some YouTube video of the place and it seems very different. Not run down or trashy, but definitely more cash-strained.
(I actually caught a video the other day about the cheapest slum in Japan. The poster was showing places to rent a room for the night that was almost like a jail cell in its spartan-ness. Cost was like $7. Turned out to be a few block away from where I lived my first summer, right in the middle of a Yakuza haven.)
Posted on 3/31/26 at 10:56 am to High C
Learn something new everyday
Posted on 3/31/26 at 11:00 am to lepdagod
I bet that a lot of terms from Asian cuisine have been bastardized to a degree here.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 11:00 am to High C
quote:
It’s pretty easy to figure out, but you might want to label the dark green line as the US.
Titles preset by the tool and the dataset you choose. May be a way to change the legend, but I guess they assume "unlabeled" defaults to the US.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 11:00 am to Ag Zwin
I'm confused, are you saying it's a good thing we pay more than we used to for stuff in America?
Posted on 3/31/26 at 11:04 am to Zach
quote:
It's as good as the one in the U.S. and less than half the price.
So only half a rip off?
Posted on 3/31/26 at 11:23 am to Tigertittie
quote:
I'm confused, are you saying it's a good thing we pay more than we used to for stuff in America?
it's nowhere near that simple.
Part of it is that we "can" (or will) pay more, but there are also elements of their basic economic structure (inefficient layers), cultural shifts, insular nature, constraining demographics, etc.
Way too many issues to parse on a message board, but it's a stark example (and one I have direct experience with) of a country that was once one of the most intimidatingly prosperous on earth, but has fallen back bigly.
Reminds me of what I have learned recently about Argentina. From late 1800's to about the 30's, it was among the top 10 in per capita wealth. Was highly inequal, but it had money. Has been a basket case for decades since.
Philippines was doing well until the Marcos years, then was the "sick man of Asia" for a long time as the Tigers prospered.
Japan was at least built on manufacturing and a strong middle class.
I just find it interesting.
Posted on 3/31/26 at 11:25 am to Mushroom1968
when I was in Yokohama in 1983 cheap beef was 30 dollars a pond, 1983 dollars. A 4 dollar bowl of beef soup must have paper thin slices, maybe 2.
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