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Message

Ten years from now would you rather a $100 item today cost $87.58 or $139.43?
Posted on 5/5/25 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 5/5/25 at 2:46 pm
This is a fun use of AI.
Everyone should have a basic understanding that over time if the supply of currency in the market remains static deflation will ensue because in general the supply of goods outpace the supply of money.
Given (these are real numbers for the last 10 years):
Last 10 year population growth rate: 0.6%
Last 10 year Total Factor Productivity (TFP): 9.5% (this is a good proxy for the supply growth of goods through labor and production).
Last 10 years of currency supply by the Federal Reserve: 59.2%.
So I prompted Grok with the following question:
Answer: $87.58
I changed it up a little:
Answer $139.43
See the problem?
Everyone should have a basic understanding that over time if the supply of currency in the market remains static deflation will ensue because in general the supply of goods outpace the supply of money.
Given (these are real numbers for the last 10 years):
Last 10 year population growth rate: 0.6%
Last 10 year Total Factor Productivity (TFP): 9.5% (this is a good proxy for the supply growth of goods through labor and production).
Last 10 years of currency supply by the Federal Reserve: 59.2%.
So I prompted Grok with the following question:
quote:
Economic hypothetical: if population grows at 0.6% for the last 10 years, currency supply remains static, then the TFP grows by 9.5% over the same previous 10 years, how much would a $100 item costs 10 years from now assuming the same population growth rate and TFP improvements?
Answer: $87.58
I changed it up a little:
quote:
Economic hypothetical adjusted: if population grows at 0.6% for the last 10 years, currency supply increase 59.2% the next 10 years, then the TFP grows by 9.5% over the same previous 10 years, how much would a $100 item costs 10 years from now assuming the same population growth rate and TFP improvements?
Answer $139.43
See the problem?
Posted on 5/5/25 at 3:15 pm to GumboPot
The US won't exist in ten years if the GOPe blows these for years and continues to turn a blind eye to election fraud.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 3:24 pm to Tandemjay
I don't know why I'm getting down voted. It's a clear demonstration of how the Federal Reserve steals from you by increasing the money supply.
Oh well. Even the Federal Reserve has their defenders.
Oh well. Even the Federal Reserve has their defenders.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 3:26 pm to Tandemjay
The cool thing is, those that caused it will be literally eaten once it's all on the table.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 3:28 pm to Tandemjay
GOP is a waste of air space, worthless and unable to take action.
Look for that $100 item to cost $200 to $500 in 10 years. Trump and his all-talk hacks are not going to do anything but shove more $ over to the billionaires and continue the rapid and intentional elimination of the middle class.
The entire system is a corrupt cesspool of criminals and frauds.
Look for that $100 item to cost $200 to $500 in 10 years. Trump and his all-talk hacks are not going to do anything but shove more $ over to the billionaires and continue the rapid and intentional elimination of the middle class.
The entire system is a corrupt cesspool of criminals and frauds.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 4:50 pm to GumboPot
I feel like the old man telling "back when I was a kid" stories, way too much these days. But here goes anyway...
I grew up in the 80s and 90s. I can remember being around 10 in 1988 and that was around the time I started being allowed to work for people around the neighborhood doing chores and other labor for a little coin of my own. I might only have made $5 a day, but I can distinctly remember being able to buy a 16oz. glass bottle of Coca Cola and a Butterfinger for well under a dollar after tax. In high school, I could walk to the store during lunch and pick up two pizza pockets, a can of Sprite and a pack of Marlboro reds for five bucks.
Can we go back to that please?
I grew up in the 80s and 90s. I can remember being around 10 in 1988 and that was around the time I started being allowed to work for people around the neighborhood doing chores and other labor for a little coin of my own. I might only have made $5 a day, but I can distinctly remember being able to buy a 16oz. glass bottle of Coca Cola and a Butterfinger for well under a dollar after tax. In high school, I could walk to the store during lunch and pick up two pizza pockets, a can of Sprite and a pack of Marlboro reds for five bucks.
Can we go back to that please?
Posted on 5/5/25 at 4:57 pm to GumboPot
This is a grossly oversimplified version of macroeconomics. There are hundreds if not thousands of factors that would be in play here.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:03 pm to barry
quote:
This is a grossly oversimplified version of macroeconomics. There are hundreds if not thousands of factors that would be in play here.
But can we agree on two overarching principles:
1. A static supply of currency is deflationary, and
2. An increasing supply of currency is inflationary.
?
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:03 pm to GumboPot
quote:It's the difference between Fiat and Gold Standard Systems.
Answer: $87.58
But let's make it more interesting. Would you pay $875.80 today for a TV that cost $1000 ten years ago, even in nominal dollars? Therein lies the falsity of inflation calculations.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:11 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Would you pay $875.80 today for a TV that cost $1000 ten years ago, even in nominal dollars? Therein lies the falsity of inflation calculations.
That's why I used the Last 10 year Total Factor Productivity numbers. It includes all income from all inputs, not just TVs. The TFP number for all goods the last 10 years is 9.5%. The TV number would be much higher.
The TV number is much higher because once a new TV model comes out the income from the inputs increase because these TV factories are automated and efficiencies are high. Most of the cost is the new tooling cost for the new models.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:15 pm to GumboPot
A currency that gains in value increases the incentive to save. The financial establishment hates the thought of deflation, because it allows people to save their way to prosperity and self-sufficiency, instead of depending on financiers and speculators and risk purveyors to manage their money in an attempt to outrun inflation. The economic spinmeisters will tell you that saving is bad, because we need people to consume, consume, consume, in order to keep our consumption based economy growing. They don't care that it's not sustainable growth and it's not affordable growth and it increases govt dependency. Just spend that paycheck and borrow some too.
There is one real problem with deflation as it pertains to our current economic state. Deflation makes outstanding debt harder to pay back. Those dollars you owe get more valuable over time. Deflation puts the US on a track to widespread defaults, including the US government. Of course the other track, the one we're on right now, is hyperinflation and that's a much more destructive outcome because it burns down the entire economy in a very short time period. That's the one you might need an underground bunker to survive.
There is one real problem with deflation as it pertains to our current economic state. Deflation makes outstanding debt harder to pay back. Those dollars you owe get more valuable over time. Deflation puts the US on a track to widespread defaults, including the US government. Of course the other track, the one we're on right now, is hyperinflation and that's a much more destructive outcome because it burns down the entire economy in a very short time period. That's the one you might need an underground bunker to survive.
This post was edited on 5/5/25 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:25 pm to GumboPot
Whatever
If you think think this is real bet your money on it
If you think think this is real bet your money on it
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:30 pm to wdhalgren
quote:
A currency that gains in value increases the incentive to save. The financial establishment hates the thought of deflation, because it allows people to save their way to prosperity and self-sufficiency, instead of depending on financiers and speculators and risk purveyors to manage their money in an attempt to outrun inflation. The economic spinmeisters will tell you that saving is bad, because we need people to consume, consume, consume, in order to keep our consumption based economy growing. They don't care that it's not sustainable growth and it's not affordable growth and it increases govt dependency. Just spend that paycheck and borrow some too.
There is one real problem with deflation as it pertains to our current economic state. Deflation makes outstanding debt harder to pay back. Those dollars you owe get more valuable over time. Deflation puts the US on a track to widespread defaults, including the US government.
I agree with all of this.
quote:
Of course the other track, the one we're on right now, is hyperinflation
I disagree. We were on that track but the FR is burning cash right now. Literally taking money out of circulation. When bonds come to maturity on the balance sheet they take the proceeds and figuratively burn it (remove it digitally).
The FR is in a tightening phase right now.
LINK
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:34 pm to Zgeo
quote:
Whatever
If you think think this is real bet your money on it
I do. That's why I dump my cash into assets. The FR might be tightening right now but their stated goal is 2% inflation. That simply translates into supplying the economy with enough currency to maintain 2% year over year prices increases.
But the supply has been crazy since COVID followed by Joe Biden's "Inflation Reduction Act" (which did the total opposite) forcing the FR to buy assets and place more currency into circulation.
The FR is tightening now though.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:42 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
But let's make it more interesting. Would you pay $875.80 today for a TV that cost $1000 ten years ago, even in nominal dollars? Therein lies the falsity of inflation calculations.
Assuming the TV has 10 years worth of tech improvements in it, absolutely
Posted on 5/5/25 at 5:49 pm to GumboPot
quote:
The FR is in a tightening phase right now.
Right now being the key words. They've tightened many times over the decades, and then reversed the tightening and followed with more loose policy than the previous cycle. If they continue shrinking their balance sheet, eventually bonds will start pricing in default risk, i.e., bond prices fall and yields rise. The assets on the fed's own balance sheet will decline in value because they hold a lot of long duration debt. In other words, continued tightening is the deflationary scenario and it would eventually destroy the Federal Reserve too if they didn't relent and start printing money again.
Our monetary system, the Federal reserve and fractional reserve banking, walks a tightrope. Fall off one side you get inflation, fall off the other side you get deflation. Every cycle over the last 50 years, the Fed loosened and they raised the rope higher as debt grew faster than the economy. The rise of debt for consumption, which compounds but doesn't generate a positive ROI, guaranteed that they would have to continue raising the rope. They can't deleverage in an orderly fashion now, so we get one or the other, hyperinflation or defaults.
This post was edited on 5/5/25 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 5/5/25 at 6:08 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Oh well. Even the Federal Reserve has their defenders.
Mortgage holders
Buy the house in today money, pay it back in tomorrow money.
Posted on 5/5/25 at 6:19 pm to GumboPot
quote:Right. I get it. Just pointing out the nuance.
That's why I used the Last 10 year Total Factor Productivity numbers
Posted on 5/5/25 at 6:21 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:Then you'd be overpaying massively
Assuming the TV has 10 years worth of tech improvements in it, absolutely
Posted on 5/5/25 at 6:23 pm to GumboPot
How about neither? Liberals are the queens of limited choices except for themselves.
This post was edited on 5/5/25 at 6:24 pm
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