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Why is the Saints cap situation so bad?

Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:12 am
Posted by Allthatfades
Mississippi
Member since Aug 2014
8764 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:12 am
For a casual fan. I mean at least other struggling teams like Raiders and Patriots will have a ton of money to spend. Hard to see the Saints improving dramatically anytime soon with the cap situation.
Posted by Jojodaddy
Member since Dec 2015
536 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:13 am to
Loomis
Posted by beauchristopher
Member since Jan 2008
72546 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:15 am to
Should have fully embraced the tank without signing so many older players.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467194 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:21 am to
Do you remember a few seasons ago when we were like $80-100M over the cap? We "kicked the can" and spread out those overages over future years.

Just a basic primer on NFL signing bonuses. The player gets the money up front but the cap impact is spread over the life of the deal. If you cut a player prior to the end of that deal, the cap impact that hadn't affect your cap accelerates.

So, just an easy example. 4 year contract with $20M signing bonus. The cap impacts are:

Year1: $5M
Year2: $5M
Year3: $5M
Year4: $5M

If you cut the player prior to year 3, then year 3 will have that $10M pro-rated portion that hadn't yet hit the cap, accelerated onto the cap of year 3. This $10M is called "dead money".

So to apply this to the saints, when we were $80-100M over the cap, we had a ton of large base salaries. These are counted 100% against the cap in the year when they are received. What "Loomising" is, was converting that base salary into a signing bonus, spreading the impact of that money over more years. This is the "kicking" (spreading of impact) of the "can" (monetary impact on our cap).

The problem is if you do this over and over, you end up with HUGE balls of dead money, where it becomes prohibitive to get rid of a player. You can't cut them and save money, and you need to save money to get under the huge holes dug in ($80-100M over the cap scenarios).

So Loomis compounded the situation by using void years. So that 4/20 scenario above becomes 5/20. The 5th year is a void year, so it counts to spread out the cap impact, but there is no salary. So now it's $4M/year and that 5th year requires either extending the player or eating a large dead cap (which is difficult to do if we're *$80-100M over the cap). We extended Cam Jordan to an insane deal this offseason because we didn't want to eat his void year (although admittedly we did let Peat walk and ate his, so they're trying to nibble when they can).

The contracts of Lattimore and Ramczyk have been our "cookie jar" and the injury to Ramczyk and the issues with Latt have caused us to accelerate the plan. Signing Carr to that deal is utterly insane given the scenario involved.
Posted by Suntiger
STG or BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
35708 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:32 am to
At the end of the Brees era, we were extending contracts (see SFP’s post above) trying to win.

After Brees retired we kept trying to win and extended guys like Carr, Jordan, Kamara, Peat, Lattimore, etc. this is the opposite of what some of the teams like the Raiders and Patriots did. That’s why they are worse than us, but better financially.

We need to let Carr play out his contract, draft well the next two years and start building a good core of players. Build around guys like Fuaga and Breese.
Posted by Geauxldilocks
Member since Aug 2018
5544 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:37 am to
Arrogance.
Posted by Neilfish
Member since Jun 2006
3415 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:40 am to
That’ll be Mickey
Posted by JS87
Member since Aug 2010
17630 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:42 am to
Chasing a championship run where the window clearly shut several years prior.

Loomis is an addict for that drug.
Posted by blizzle
Dallas, TX
Member since Jan 2009
1046 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:49 am to
The strategy kind of worked as long as the salary cap kept going up. But, the salary cap went down for the first time ever in the COVID year, which threw a wrench into the gears of Loomis’ untraditional system. We were playing with fire and got burnt.
Posted by geauxtigers87
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2011
26972 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 7:53 am to
quote:

Why is the Saints cap situation so bad?


Posted by Klingler7
Houston
Member since Nov 2009
12546 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 9:16 am to
So as a Saints fan, we have to bite the bullet for likely 4 more seasons before a serious championship run can commence.
Posted by chRxis
None of your fricking business
Member since Feb 2008
26731 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 10:02 am to
quote:

we have to bite the bullet for likely 4 more seasons

at least... could be longer, if we don't hit on pretty much every single draft pick

quote:

serious championship run

there's no guarantee that we will even have that after the "biting the bullet" approach... we all hope that's the end result, but the only thing it would guarantee would be we are more in line with the salary cap going forward
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
53696 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 11:02 am to
quote:

Arrogance.


Yep.

It's called being Arrogant and unaware of your own incapabilities. It's called thinking that you are smart and competent, but, really, you are not smart and rather incompetent. It's called having a "bean counter" run the player personnel analysis and acquisitions and being too arrogant to realize that you need a TRUE "football personnel" guy as your GM.

This is the stuff that crashes Empires, my friends, and, rest assured, it will crash the New Orleans NFL franchise, which indeed was never close to any kind of "empire" or "dynasty", unless one can achieve a Dynasty of Failure.
Posted by Geauxldilocks
Member since Aug 2018
5544 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 11:04 am to
Many on this board said the “cap is a myth”. Loomis took them seriously.
Posted by Friendly Satan
Member since Nov 2024
1315 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 11:22 am to
Drew Bree$

Tom played for Super Bowls.
Drew played for money.
Posted by Geauxldilocks
Member since Aug 2018
5544 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 11:32 am to
quote:

Drew Bree$ Tom played for Super Bowls. Drew played for money.


You can argue this case. Drew famously forced the Saints to franchise tag him and ended up getting $20M annually vs $19M offered at the time for 5 years.

Carl Nix was exposed to FA when he could’ve been tagged and the team suffered through 3 straight 7-9 seasons in Brees’ prime.
Posted by TG
Metairie
Member since Sep 2004
3235 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 11:39 am to
Drew played for many years below what he could have been payed.

A real source of our cap issues are due to trading draft picks to draft or sign one player. And those players didn’t reach potential.
Posted by paulb52
Member since Dec 2019
7519 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 11:58 am to
Wasted moves with lack of foresight.
Posted by TigerSooner
Member since Nov 2023
3634 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 3:21 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/25/24 at 2:05 pm
Posted by Townedrunkard
Member since Jan 2019
13937 posts
Posted on 12/24/24 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

You can argue this case. Drew famously forced the Saints to franchise tag him and ended up getting $20M annually vs $19M offered at the time for 5 years. Carl Nix was exposed to FA when he could’ve been tagged and the team suffered through 3 straight 7-9 seasons in Brees’ prime.


Drew earned every penny and probably more. Front office overpaid several bad free agents during his years, and bad drafting. Spent alot of stupid money on free agent defensive players that were total busts.

Jarius Byrd, Jason David, Kevin Kaesvihorn, Brandon browner, Kurt Coleman, nick fairly. CJ Spiller, Colby Fleener. All bad signings that cost a ton of money.
This post was edited on 12/24/24 at 4:33 pm
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