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Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:28 pm
Posted by Pels247
Member since May 2024
27 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:28 pm
Everyone take a break and stop melting for a while to think of the postives. I was origiinally really down on Murray, but I think he will bring the best out of everyone and everyone on our roster can bring the best out of him. Yes the center position will be rough. Yes the roster construction is clunky. But there is reason for optimism. Both Zion and Ingram have played much better when they have a real point guard. And we not only got one, but we got one that when he was the starting point guard his last year for the Spurs was fourth in the league in assists with 9 per game. That was with a starting lineup of Derrick White (before his improvment with the Celtics), a young Keldon Johnson, Doug Mcdermott, and Jakob Poeltl.

This should be the best team that Murray has played with by far. With the Spurs he didn't have any elite offensive talent. He did have one with Trae, but Trae played the position Murray should have been playing. Now he gets elite shooters and an elite big to play with.

His last year in San Antonio he put up 21/9/8. For the 28 games without Trae Young, Murray put up 25/9/6 and that was mostly with guys like Capella, Jalen Johnson, Bogdanovich, Bey, and Hunter. Once again the lineup that we put around him should have much better weapons. I could see him easily putting up an efficient 25/10 while hopefully getting back to at least some of the defensive impact he had in San Antonio. Hopefully we get back to an Ingram that shoots 38-39% on about 6 attempts a game like he did when he was playing with Zo. Zion and Ingram's best years came with Zo at point and Murray is much better. If they can all mesh well they have 3 all star caliber players that have surrounding pieces like Trey, CJ, and Herb as well. That doesn't even include a potential elite movement shooter like Hawk if he can improve this year.

So take a break from melting about things you can't control, and watch these Murray highlights from when he was the point guard in his last year in San Antonio: LINK
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
29645 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:39 pm to
postives:
we added a really good talent in Murray, should have added protections to the Lakers pick we gave away.
we replaced Zeller with Theis ( a guy who couldn't get on the court in Indy last year)




negatives:
We lost JV and haven't replaced him
We lost Larry and haven't replaced him
We lost Naji and haven't replaced him
We have zero money to add someone in FA without going over the tax, while we currently only have 12 rostered players.


I'll stop melting when those negatives have some resolution.

Posted by touchdownjeebus
Member since Sep 2010
25734 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:40 pm to
Murray is definitely the best piece we could have acquired and not decimated the chest/bank.

He fits perfectly. He can easily get you 8-10 asst a game, shoots the 3 at a decent clip, has a decent midrange game, can get to the cup, and plays solid, if not spectacular perimeter D.

I would be really surprised if by the trade deadline we don’t have the center this team is sorely lacking.
Posted by ghost2most
Member since Mar 2012
7693 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:43 pm to
I like the Murray signing.

But I can't ignore the roster imbalance.

We've lost a ton of depth. Naji, Dyson, Val, Nance.

That's four dudes who played a ton last year.

I think we'll see growth from Hawk and hopefully Trey too.

Still a long way to go and plenty of moves to be made but as of today, I don't know that we're any better.

But all it takes is getting a decent C and we should be so there's hope.
Posted by Chalkywhite84
New orleans
Member since Dec 2016
33243 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:44 pm to
quote:

I like the Murray signing.

But I can't ignore the roster imbalance.

We've lost a ton of depth. Naji, Dyson, Val, Nance.

That's four dudes who played a ton last year.

I think we'll see growth from Hawk and hopefully Trey too.



I really would love to know how Griffin got himself in this mess. Doesn't seem like he had a great plan.
Posted by Pels_Yaz
Member since Apr 2023
11544 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:48 pm to
quote:

I really would love to know how Griffin got himself in this mess. Doesn't seem like he had a great plan.


1. Inability to accept sunk cost.

2. Overvaluing one’s own players.

3. Building around the wrong player.

4. Inability to draft/find a center.

5. Hiring/firing too many coaches.

6. Obsessing over “human” characteristics over basketball talent.



Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

I was origiinally really down on Murray


I'm irrationally excited about Murray's fit here. Murray is technically a lateral move away from BI except he brings everything BI does plus plugs major, game losing holes in Ball Handling, Defense, Rebounding, and Clutch Scoring. And he does that all on a much better contract. A talent side grade that in practice should be a huge upgrade because he fits like a glove! I feel like I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but I don't see what I'm missing.

Posted by Pels247
Member since May 2024
27 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:56 pm to
Even if you don't like the Theis signing he should be able to give us close to what Nance gave us. And while i was a huge fan of Naji's game I don't think we will miss him that much with the roster as currently constructed. JV is obviously a big loss. The biggest difficulty will be trying to find minutes for all the players that we have outside of center.

But my main point is I think we will be better because Murray will help CJ, Ingram, Herb, Trey, and Zion all play better this year. And they will make him better than any year he has ever had. If whoever comes off the bench fully embraces that role then I think we could be better next year. Especially if we can get at least some other decent center like Reed. But I guess we will see.
Posted by saintslsupels
Member since Jul 2014
2492 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:32 pm to
I don’t understand how some think we don’t have depth. I understand the frustration with needing a center, but the depth everywhere else is great.

If the season started today, our depth chart would be:

PG: Murray, Jose
SG: CJ, Hawkins, Reeves
SF: BI, Herb
PF: Zion, Trey, JRE
C: Theis, Missi

I know the roster isn’t set but right now we have Herb and Trey coming off the bench, yet you some people complain about depth??

We’re fricking loaded every where but center.
Posted by Pels_Yaz
Member since Apr 2023
11544 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:34 pm to
quote:

We’re fricking loaded every where but center.


But you dont have depth when one of your positions is so bad you’re starting a third string player and its the worst depth at the position in the league. Theis and Missi would not get minutes on most nba teams this season.
Posted by BamaPelican
Member since Apr 2022
437 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

Even if you don't like the Theis signing he should be able to give us close to what Nance gave us. And while i was a huge fan of Naji's game I don't think we will miss him that much with the roster as currently constructed. JV is obviously a big loss. The biggest difficulty will be trying to find minutes for all the players that we have outside of center.

But my main point is I think we will be better because Murray will help CJ, Ingram, Herb, Trey, and Zion all play better this year. And they will make him better than any year he has ever had. If whoever comes off the bench fully embraces that role then I think we could be better next year. Especially if we can get at least some other decent center like Reed. But I guess we will see.


Don't take it too hard...this is a weirdly down thread. Your take is what most people think. The Pels have gotten better already and have moves to make since they got better without hamstringing themselves.

The only significant loss is at the 5* and we just drafted a young athletic guy, picked up a cheap Vet**, and likely aren't done yet.

*Naji was a luxury but there just aren't enough minutes for him on this roster to justify the cost. Same with Dyson. Neither of those guys would play much on this roster.

**Theis is a really good pickup for the Pels. He is better than Zeller and although he probably isn't the overall player Larry is, particularly as a passer and on defensive anticipation, he may be a better fit since he is a better rim protector and offensive rebounder while still costing like Zeller.

As you mentioned, the Pels pick up a Reed and this roster is tough, or Griff makes another move and its potentially even better.

PG - DJM, Jose
SG - CJ, Hawk, Reeves
SF - BI, Herb/Trey, Ryan
PF - Zion, JRE
C - _____, Theis, Missi


This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 5:42 pm
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
30726 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:01 pm to
quote:

We lost JV and haven't replaced him
We lost Larry and haven't replaced him
We lost Naji and haven't replaced him
We have zero money to add someone in FA without going over the tax, while we currently only have 12 rostered players.


This is why you need to get off BI and hopefully get a serviceable Center and a draft pick or two. It’s addition by subtraction because you clear the way for Trey. We also need the salary dump. We can’t afford him in further years especially if he wants close to max.
Posted by jrobic4
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
11854 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:13 pm to
quote:

Hiring/firing too many


He fricked up with hiring SVG in the first place, but it's not an excuse for keeping Willie too long
Posted by Soggymoss
Member since Aug 2018
17150 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

He fricked up with hiring SVG in the first place,

Did he though?

He fricked up not giving SVG a better option than Eric fricking Bledsoe at PG, but I wouldn’t say he fricked up hiring him.

We should have kept SVG and probably would have if it wouldn’t have been for BI crying about being coached hard.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20611 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 6:30 pm to
quote:

negatives:
We lost JV and haven't replaced him
We lost Larry and haven't replaced him
We lost Naji and haven't replaced him


We "lost" a center who was so slow and such a poor defender that our coach hated playing him.

We also "lost" an undersized center who couldn't rebound, is old, and has chronic injuries that impact his play.

We also "lost" a guy who was going to struggle to get any minutes on this year's team, because Murray is taking all of them and more, and Hawk also has to get on the floor a lot more.


Those aren't negatives. They were things that absolutely needed to happen.
Posted by NOSA
Member since Jan 2004
10084 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:08 pm to
I love how Nance is all of a sudden a loss when there was bitching like crazy about him last year.
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
30726 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:26 pm to
quote:

We’re fricking loaded every where but center.


I think we fall in love with our players too much. We have talent but we aren’t “fricking loaded”.
Posted by LusciousBaller11
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2019
97 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:52 pm to
Well Said!
Posted by Chalkywhite84
New orleans
Member since Dec 2016
33243 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 8:02 pm to
quote:

We "lost" a center who was so slow and such a poor defender that our coach hated playing him.



But what was his plan to replace him?
Posted by Chalkywhite84
New orleans
Member since Dec 2016
33243 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 8:04 pm to
quote:

This is why you need to get off BI and hopefully get a serviceable Center and a draft pick or two. It’s addition by subtraction because you clear the way for Trey. We also need the salary dump. We can’t afford him in further years especially if he wants close to max.


People act like good teams don't have move than 5 good players.

I do agree that they can't afford to keep Ingram and trey. But I just don't see Griff taking bullshite for Ingram.

He will let him play out his last yr and trade him at the deadline.
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