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In general, why aren't utilities underground to avoid loss of power?

Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:02 pm
Posted by HubbaBubba
North of DFW, TX
Member since Oct 2010
49000 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:02 pm
Where I live, they are. The only power line visible are main transmission tower lines.

Is it just too hard to get the easements for it?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
452017 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:04 pm to
Heat
Expense

Those are the 2 most common answers on threads on here discussing this issue, historically.
Posted by GeauxHouston
Midland, Texas
Member since Nov 2013
4852 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:04 pm to
Assuming faster to do power line installation than excavate that much. Also probably $
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 4:05 pm
Posted by phil good
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2013
1669 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:05 pm to
Cost and temp
Posted by 9Fiddy
19th Hole
Member since Jan 2007
65551 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:05 pm to
Money plus ease of maintenance. If all the lines were buried, the utilities aren’t going to operate at a loss, so the rates would probably triple to cover the costs.

As for maintenance, any time you have a line issue, you have to get locates from all other utilities, then dig up the issue and repair it. That is if you can pinpoint it underground. Plus, I’m not sure you really want a large transmission line buried, if it’s even possible.
Posted by War Eagle 777
Georgia
Member since Nov 2010
367 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:06 pm to
$$$$
Posted by LSUballs
RayVegas LA
Member since Feb 2008
39021 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:06 pm to
When technology to do so came along they were all already ran overhead.
Posted by Bucktail1
Member since Feb 2015
3365 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:16 pm to
People on here say heat, but it has nothing to do with that. 90% of utilities in Austin are underground and it’s a hell of a lot hotter there than it is here. I’ve lived in both areas. It’s all about doing things the easy cheap way in LA
Posted by Jack Daniel
Gold member
Member since Feb 2013
27519 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

Heat

What does this mean?
Posted by MightyYat
StB Garden District
Member since Jan 2009
25029 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:21 pm to
I don't know that the water table would allow this shite in most of the New Orleans area. Between that and all the old shitty sewer pipes, tunneling in my area would be a nightmare.
Posted by TU Rob
Birmingham
Member since Nov 2008
13171 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:22 pm to
Higher costs to bury them, but certain areas are willing to do so for better looks and less loss of power. My parents built a house in south Alabama about 20 years ago, and the developer of the neighborhood had them all ran underground and had conduits at each lot. More expensive, sure, but there were no poles and above ground lines in the whole neighborhood, and it just looked better. Harder to do in a whole city, but in smaller pockets it can be done at the owner's expense.
Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
11903 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

People on here say heat, but it has nothing to do with that. 90% of utilities in Austin are underground and it’s a hell of a lot hotter there than it is here. I’ve lived in both areas. It’s all about doing things the easy cheap way in LA

That’s not what people mean when they say heat.

They’re talking about the temperature of the wire when you’re using insulated wire in oil-filled conduit rather than bare wire in air. Because the insulated wire gets way hotter, it has to be larger (which drives up the cost even more than simply putting an equivalent wire size in conduit).

It’s just a way of explaining one reason why it costs so much more to run power underground. There are plenty of other reasons.

You see more underground power in newer developments because A) it’s much easier to install as part of a new construction project, B) power lines are unsightly, so there is some value for developers to hide them, and C) it’s the actual developers footing the bill rather than the general public.

ETA: Most people don’t seem to grasp just how expensive it is to replace overhead lines with underground power. People will say “but they would save money in repairs.” The thing is.. repairing overhead lines is actually really cheap. It’s just that there are so many repairs that have to be done after a major hurricane.

But that’s nowhere near the cost of literally rebuilding the entire grid, much less rebuilding the entire grid underground in existing, developed areas. Moving power underground is, quite literally, orders of magnitude more expensive than replacing all of the existing above ground infrastructure in a given area.
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 4:40 pm
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
13410 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:35 pm to
Cost.

You can bore the conduits and not have to excavate but boring is expensive. Issue is wire pull distance. Need a manhole every 300’ give or take based on wire. Also buried wire needs jacketing whereas pole mounted can be bare if high enough.

Also, look at how many times you see a branch/tap off of an above ground transmission run. For underground edging will need a manhole at each of these locations so digging and manhole cost.

Easier to do this on first install in a new area. Very hard in older areas.
Posted by diat150
Louisiana
Member since Jun 2005
46136 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:35 pm to
because instead of spending money on our infrastructure here we spend trillions and trillions in bullshite wars or entitlements..etc,
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
102554 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:45 pm to
Cost. It's all about cost.

Costs more to install, costs more in material, costs more to maintain.
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
9218 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:53 pm to
quote:

ou can bore the conduits and not have to excavate but boring is expensive. Issue is wire pull distance. Need a manhole every 300’ give or take based on wire. Also buried wire needs jacketing whereas pole mounted can be bare if high enough.



You would need to put a splice box/ manhole at EVERY property. That's how it is done in subdivisions, every lot has access, or a transformer is dedicated to a group of lots.

When the main lines a re underground and along the highway with 1000' of unused land and someone decides to develop the middle property, you can't just tap onto the service cable like overhead lines.

If the service is a 13.8kv or 19.2 kv system, you don't just tap into it. Stress cones and modular splices are required and are a pain to deal with since the magnetic properties of voltage that high are constantly degrading the semicon areas of the cones.
Posted by lsusteve1
Member since Dec 2004
44207 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:55 pm to
It’s way more expensive to install
Posted by mg711
DA PARISH
Member since Dec 2007
171 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 4:56 pm to
New Orleans are too much water in the ground...with everything money
Posted by tgrgrd00
Kenner, LA
Member since Jun 2004
10643 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:35 pm to
We have underground utilities in Kenner where I live.

They don't prevent loss of power. On the contrary we lose power often, more than my parents that have utility poles not far from me.

No shite, Entergy is out here literally digging up people's yards to repair broken lines once a month. My neighbor's yard in front of their house has been dug up twice in the last 6 months.

I have a transformer in the back corner of my hard and they are always accessing it to troubleshoot where the line breaks are.

I talk to them sometimes and they know the underground lines suck.

Plus, our underground lines are fed by above ground lines soooooooo.

Posted by billjamin
Houston
Member since Jun 2019
15117 posts
Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:39 pm to
It's money. Underground lines are expensive AF. high kV lines are several million a mile. Lower kV distribution are still almost a million a mile.

They just can't get the money for it. Defaults would go through the roof.
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