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Started By
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Questions about a federal fair tax.
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:01 pm
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:01 pm
I’ve read a little bit about the fair tax, mostly how it’s a consumption tax and how everyone would pay it, unlike what we have now. So basically the more shite you buy, the more you’d pay. But it would eliminate income taxes so you would get to keep the vast majority of your wages.
My biggest question is this, how much revenue would it potentially generate for the government? If it generates the same or more revenue than who the hell would be against it?
How would you go about estimating potential revenue? GDP? The US GDP in 2023 was like $27.3 trillion. If it’s based on GDP, 15% would be over $4 trillion.
My biggest question is this, how much revenue would it potentially generate for the government? If it generates the same or more revenue than who the hell would be against it?
How would you go about estimating potential revenue? GDP? The US GDP in 2023 was like $27.3 trillion. If it’s based on GDP, 15% would be over $4 trillion.
This post was edited on 6/14/24 at 10:11 pm
26
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:14 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
My biggest question is this, how much revenue would it potentially generate for the government? If it generates the same or more revenue than who the hell would be against it?
The 47% of the country not paying any income tax. Pretty nifty that 47% experience no direct consequences of their voting as it relates to taxes.
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:17 pm to bhtigerfan
I'm definitely in favor of some sort of consumption tax, but repealing income tax would need go be in the same bill. I don't trust the government not to frick us over.
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:22 pm to LSUSUPERSTAR
quote:Oh fricking definitely.
I'm definitely in favor of some sort of consumption tax, but repealing income tax would need go be in the same bill. I don't trust the government not to frick us over.
The Democrats would like both, but that would cause a fricking revolt.
This post was edited on 6/15/24 at 1:11 am
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:23 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:You'd have to tax everything though. Not likely. Look at how sales taxes work. Most B2B and resell are exempt.
How would you go about estimating potential revenue? GDP? The US GDP in 2023 was like $27.3 trillion. If it’s based on GDP, 15% would be over $4 trillion.
If you want to look at a consumption number, if we assumed everyone spends every bit of their income (not realistic, but we're just splitballing) ...Total federal AGI is roughly $12-14 Trillion. So at current spending the rate would need to be closer to 30-50% to have any chance of balancing the budget.
This post was edited on 6/14/24 at 10:24 pm
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:29 pm to bhtigerfan
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:30 pm to bhtigerfan
I started dating a Canadian 35 years ago. Their taxes were a GST and a PST. Provincial sales tax and goods and services tax. They combined to 12% in 1989. They are still at 12% today. They have tons more social programs than us, but not the number of deadbeats. They also are not giving billions to 50 countries every year.
Our politicians are also a bit greedier. When this comes up, they only discuss 25%.
Our politicians are also a bit greedier. When this comes up, they only discuss 25%.
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:31 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
who the hell would be against it?
The pols and lobbyist who use the tax code to get people to behave and move the way they want. Tax code is the single biggest power/influence the government has over behavior.
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:31 pm to bhtigerfan
The 16th Amendment would have to be repealed. That requires a constitutional convention with 2/3 of states voting for it. It's not something a president can do, not even with both houses of congress.
Posted on 6/14/24 at 10:32 pm to bhtigerfan
Look into EBT/SNAP recipients that in large or small towns do not pay one cent tax on their grocery bill that would go back to the cities and would improve infrastructure or hire more people. That right there has a very large impact. It will bankrupt a city if the majority is not working and paying taxes. That is why DC is very successful with shutting down large cities that do not work.
This post was edited on 6/14/24 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 6/14/24 at 11:17 pm to Hangit
quote:
but not the number of deadbeats
This is such a critical point
Posted on 6/14/24 at 11:29 pm to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
My biggest question is this, how much revenue would it potentially generate for the government? If it generates the same or more revenue than who the hell would be against it?
The 47% of the country not paying any income tax. Pretty nifty that 47% experience no direct consequences of their voting as it relates to taxes.
Plus every single member of Congress, Dims and GOP alike. They're not giving up that much power.
Posted on 6/14/24 at 11:32 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
Questions about a federal fair tax.
1.) No tax is fair
2.) I have no doubt, whatever they call it "fair tax" we will be fricked as a tax payer. We have people in Washington (congress/senate) that has no connect to American people anymore.
3.) Term Limits. noone needs more than 8 years in Washington.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:15 am to Taxing Authority
quote:Yeah, I read a couple of paragraphs about it.
You'd have to tax everything though.
They even propose a tax on new home purchases. Can you imagine how much would be? And the proposal is for a 23% tax. There were a few things that I don’t agree should be taxed.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:32 am to bhtigerfan
Just one point. They always exclude necessities like food, clothing etc. In these fair tax scenarios.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 4:54 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Total federal AGI is roughly $12-14 Trillion.
Huh?
Do you have source for this?
Posted on 6/15/24 at 4:56 am to UnoMe
quote:
1.) No tax is fair
Disagree
A consumption tax is fair.
.
A tarrif can be fair.
An income tax is theft
Posted on 6/15/24 at 4:58 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
They even propose a tax on new home purchases. Can you imagine how much would be? And the proposal is for a 23% tax. There were a few things that I don’t agree should be taxed.
Under a consumption tax system, every item “consumed” is taxed. From bread to home purchase- it’s taxed. Even things like stock purchases gets taxed.
The rate against various items would vary but all items purchased- for any reason- gets taxed.
Posted on 6/15/24 at 5:08 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
If it generates the same or more revenue than who the hell would be against it?
There’s strong opposition from the left because they say it unfairly burdens the poor.
Consider
Jack makes 1mm a year and consumes 10,000 per month and saves the rest. His consumption rate is 12% and he pays tax on that of roughly $24,000 a year which is 2.4% of his income.
Floyd makes 40,000 a year and consumes 3,000 per month and has little for savings. His consumption rate is 90% and he pays tax on that of roughly $7,200 a year which is 18% of his income.
Because the rate against his income are higher for floyd, liberals call it unfair.
Of course there are those who will claim that floyd should get credits against what he has to pay and then we start down the road to perverting the whole thing so that the less fortunate end up paying little to nothing just like it is now….
Posted on 6/15/24 at 5:18 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Just one point. They always exclude necessities like food, clothing etc. In these fair tax scenarios.
And that is how a tax blossoms into a larger tax to bring in enough revenue.
Tax it all at all stages of production. And also tax professional services while you are at it.
Even tax healthcare maybe at a lower percentage to fund Medicaid Programs better.
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