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Message
re: Starved to Death in an American Jail, the Man Who Couldn't Pay $100 Bail
Posted on 2/28/24 at 11:52 am to NCIS_76
Posted on 2/28/24 at 11:52 am to NCIS_76
quote:
The man needed medical help.
If you're a Policeman who deals with shitty people on an hourly basis, 365 a year, the line between legit crazy person and thug azzhole can become pretty blurred.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 11:53 am to WeeWee
quote:
Maybe if we stopped sending lawyers and social workers to the border to process illegal immigrants we could use check on the well being of Americans.
he was in custody
you think the corrections officers forgot to check on him because they were at the border?
Posted on 2/28/24 at 11:54 am to lsufan1971
quote:
Third way mission statement
You're trying to attack the messenger instead of the actual data.
quote:
Not exactly unbiased
What was flawed about the methodology?
quote:
I'm not going to spend the time to link every article or study.
But you want me to spend my time linking studies that prove bail reform didn't lead to an increase in crime... from authors/organizations you approve of.
I posted the meta-analysis of data that showed there isn't a clear pattern in terms of whether or not bail reform directly causes an increase or decrease in crime. Instead of addressing that, you're searching for single jurisdictions that confirm your bias.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 11:55 am to roadGator
quote:
Try not to plagiarize next time.
I never claimed to be the author of the study. And the study is linked in at least one other post of mine. You're salty and you're reaching for ways to disparage me.
This post was edited on 2/28/24 at 11:57 am
Posted on 2/28/24 at 11:57 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
I generally do not agree with the OP, but I agree in this case that it's not o.k. to stand by and watch/let a mentally ill prisoner kill himself in jail. Whether the headline of the thread is accurate or not.
My sentiment as well, on all points. This lawsuit will not end well for defendants.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 12:01 pm to 4cubbies
No. You copy and pasted part of a study you linked earlier without attributing it to the authors making it seem like your own.
That’s bad. Don’t do that.
That’s bad. Don’t do that.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 12:07 pm to roadGator
Posted on 2/28/24 at 12:13 pm to 4cubbies
New Jersey bail reform might not be going as well as third way said it is apparently.
LINK
quote:
Eight years ago, then-Republican Gov. Chris Christie teamed up with Democrats to pass a major overhaul of New Jersey’s criminal justice system, ushering through legislation that made the state among the first in the nation to effectively eliminate cash bail.
quote:
Now, some of the state’s most powerful Democrats want to roll back those changes amid rising crime and political lessons from neighboring New York, where another bail overhaul became a major issue in the midterms and fueled key House losses for the party.
quote:
Shaun Golden, the sheriff in Monmouth County near the Jersey Shore, recently circulated a chart to the press that showed the number of car thefts in New Jersey in the first nine months of each year went from fewer than 8,800 in 2017 to 10,702 in 2022. But those arrests dropped significantly after the launch of the Christie-backed bail changes, before spiking even more dramatically in 2021, dropping to just under 7,600 in 2020 before spiking to nearly 9,000 in 2021 and 10,700 in 2022.
quote:
“There are some who have re-offended five or six times,” Golden said in a phone interview, adding that car theft rings are using juveniles, who face a more lenient criminal justice system, as “mules.”
LINK
Posted on 2/28/24 at 12:19 pm to 4cubbies
I know. Then you presented as your own later.
It's something you can work on for the future.
It's something you can work on for the future.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 12:29 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
generally do not agree with the OP, but I agree in this case that it's not o.k. to stand by and watch/let a mentally ill prisoner kill himself in jail. Whether the headline of the thread is accurate or not.
Yes, you could probably get a consensus on that point on this forum with just a few detractors. You could likely have good discussion on new ways to deal with the situation or liability
What is far more difficult is to assert this is a bail reform issue when the bail was only 100 and multiple family members that could pay that amount without hardship, and by their own admission, did not do do because they thought jail was a better place.
I’ll be seen this often— would be researchers start with a conclusion and seek data to support it. They may even see bail reform in their gumbo. It leads to a distrust in all research
Posted on 2/28/24 at 12:44 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Or are you just pretending to be blind/illiterate?
If this is your first reaction to persons that question your data or research, then you might want to reconsider higher education
quote:
linked the sources directly in my posts. I don’t know how to make them more clear or accessible to you
As you later note, you most assuredly did not. Even cutting and pasting what looks like a very small lit-review does not provide support for your assertion regarding the purported reasons for missed appearances. I am skeptical about any such study, but also know you tend to stretch both findings and recommendations beyond the support of the research
Posted on 2/28/24 at 1:52 pm to 4cubbies
20 pages of most people not giving a shite, and then slamming you because you are a liberal. This is why I come to the board, it's just pure entertainment.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 1:54 pm to dukkbill
quote:
If this is your first reaction to persons that question your data or research, then you might want to reconsider higher education
She's a skrong, Liberal Teacher who ain't gonna let ANYBODY mansplain to or question her....
Posted on 2/28/24 at 2:20 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
reaching for ways to disparage me.
It’s a short reach.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 4:00 pm to roadGator
quote:
Then you presented as your own later.
I did not. But I realize you'd rather die on this hill then admit you're mistaken.
quote:
Even cutting and pasting what looks like a very small lit-review does not provide support for your assertion regarding the purported reasons for missed appearances
I wrote that "lit review" and it was not in reference to identifying the reasons people fail to appear in court.
This post was edited on 2/28/24 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 2/28/24 at 4:04 pm to lsufan1971
quote:
the number of car thefts in New Jersey in the first nine months of each year went from fewer than 8,800 in 2017 to 10,702 in 2022. But those arrests dropped significantly after the launch of the Christie-backed bail changes, before spiking even more dramatically in 2021, dropping to just under 7,600 in 2020 before spiking to nearly 9,000 in 2021 and 10,700 in 2022.
I guess you've never heard of the KIA Boyz, which was trending on TikTok in 2021.
Alarming surge in Vegas car thefts, up 36.5%, tied to TikTok 'Hyundai-Kia Challenge'
This post was edited on 2/28/24 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 2/28/24 at 4:07 pm to dukkbill
quote:
the bail was only 100 and multiple family members that could pay that amount without hardship, and by their own admission, did not do do because they thought jail was a better place.
So you believe that the relatives of everyone arrested should be on the hook for bail in specifically what amounts? Your issue seems to be that if someone is poor, they should have to stay in jail as punishment for not being able to afford bail. That's literally exactly what I'm advocating against.
quote:
I’ll be seen this often— would be researchers start with a conclusion and seek data to support it. They may even see bail reform in their gumbo. It leads to a distrust in all research
Your assumptions cause you to disregard research without evaluating for yourself. Shocking.
This post was edited on 2/28/24 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 2/28/24 at 4:52 pm to 4cubbies
I still can’t get by the first sentence.
Was he starved? Or did he starve himself?
Was he starved? Or did he starve himself?
Posted on 2/28/24 at 5:18 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Frankly, I'm not interested in impressing you.
Frankly, that's good, because you never have. Not positively, anyway. And by the way I haven't said one thing to you or about you on this thread that would make any sense for you to be jerky to me that way (until now, anyway), but maybe you're just a jerk.
quote:
The study said about 40% of people didn't show up for court. That means that 60% did appear in court.
Like I said, if anyone gave that data, I missed it. You posted what I replied to as though the 13%-21% reduction meant that the majority of people showed up for court.
quote:
you asked "So what do those of you who advocate for bail reform suggest to ensure that people show up for their court appearances?"
I showed you an option that was working.
Except that it isn't "working." Even according to the numbers you gave, there are still around a quarter of the people who are supposed to be coming for court who just choose to not show up. That's after the nannying.
That's not "working."
quote:
Another option is supervised release.
In 2020, after cash bail was replaced by a supervised release for violent felons, the court appearance rate was 86% which this report says is similar to the appearance rate for those out on bail
That's getting closer to "working." What does it cost? Sounds kind of expensive.
This post was edited on 2/28/24 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 2/28/24 at 5:22 pm to Rebel
quote:
I still can’t get by the first sentence.
Why?
What does it matter?
A guy who drowns himself still drowns. A guy who starves himself still starves.
A facility that sits by and watches while guy who is mentally ill does either to himself is responsible.
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