Software guys of the OT. Questions about coding/getting started.

No body learns to code anymore.

Now we learn how to ask AI to code.

What kind of software are you most interested in building? What sort of companies are you interested in working for?

Coding is one of those things where you either have the aptitude for it or you don't. I've known people who didn't but somehow got an IT or CS degree. I've certainly known people with no degree who did have the natural ability. I have hired people from bootcamps who did well. The main thing to be sure of is that you're honest about whether you have the ability.

As for the AI thing, it's really just yet another example of "trying to make programming easy or fast." Those efforts have largely failed... COBOL and SQL were intended to be more human-friendly, but they're really not.

If the future of programming is "writing prompts for AI to write the code from," I can assure you that writing those prompts will be exacting, difficult, error-prone, and time-consuming. It's still programming. It's not like you can just tell AI, "uh, yeah, make me an e-commerce site kind of like, Uber for taxidermy, and make it compliant with PCI and Sarbanes-Oxley and stuff." You'll be authoring very precise instructions using a subset of the English language, and that is not that different from the original (failed) vision people had for COBOL, SQL, and Visual Basic.

You won't be a good coder if you don't comprehend the problems you're trying to solve for the business.

If I were a young man, I'd be looking at network security, big data/cloud services, and API development.

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a coding bootcamp. I even see that LSU offers one

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There is a huge difference between a bootcamp learning to read and write Python to understanding the fundamentals of programming and the computer architecture.

Boot camp coders around here will get hired for Ok pay I would think, but with very little upward mobility unless you get big into cyber security. However, people who work those fields burn out very quickly. I would still recommend it for people who do not have a college degree as you can always transition to something else once the inevitable burn out occurs.

If you can go back to school and get an engineering degree in something like computer engineering and truly understand the fundamentals of how it works. Embedded C type programmers are in extremely high demand, but generally we only hire those with degrees for these positions. However, tons of upward mobility along with the ability to basically work anywhere within the "software" industry.

Don't do it. It's not the same anymore.

I'm not a programmer, but have a casual interest in the field, and read an article here and there to the point I think I have a little bit of insight, which I'll get to, but first, the joke...

"Learn to code" has specific context as a joke. In 2019, Biden had a rally in 2019 in West Virginia, where he advised coal miners to learn to code/program. It was a callous statement, I think in response to a question, and he was was basically telling them that he was going to get rid of their jobs in the pursuit of the green agenda. In this way, it was reminiscent of Marie Antoinette's, "Then let them eat cake" response in reply to hearing the peasants didn't have bread to eat. At it's heart, the joke is a joke by virtue of its flippant indifference to the suffering of people losing their livelihood.

This actually has bearing on your greater question. Coding isn't dead and there is some chance to still breaking in and having a decent career, but it's a largely mature / no longer booming industry at this point. (Recommending coal miners to just switch jobs and become programmers showed indifference to the fact that domestic employers have been increasingly screwing over their own programmers, replacing them with lower cost overseas options and H1B types, not to mention that becoming good at coding isn't for everyone.) And if you look at the news, many of the big tech companies are laying people off by the thousands (though how much of that is inefficient middle management positions vs programmers, I don't know).

The issue I think you're going to have to prepare for is that there is a glut of people on the front end who are vying for entry level positions and employers can afford to be picky and want to see you have some sort of portfolio of work... a catch-22 of sorts.

My intention here is NOT to black pill you on becoming a programmer. While there is a glut of people on the front end who try to break in to the industry, many lose hope and drop out of the race. If you're talented, and willing to put in the work on the front end and persevere (think: starving artists and actors who toil for a year(s) before breaking through) then you can succeed and have a good career. And as others have said, AI isn't there yet. People with good problem solving skills and ability to guide AI are still needed. Further, even if programming on the whole is not booming anymore, there are some subsectors which will be hotter than others for jobs. It's my understanding that data science, AI, and cybersecurity currently have better prospects for tech/programmers. And since governments are working towards implementing CBDCs, there will likely be a future in understanding and being able to create smart contracts in crypto ecosystems. Also, sometimes new languages emerge which fill a special need and quickly learning them can put you ahead of the pack. For instance, some are saying the new "Mojo" language combines the usability of Python with the perfomance of C and may displace the Rust language in a lot of AI/data science projects.

A few pieces of advice:

- If you're interested in the field, become interested in the field. I'm not in the field directly, but am interested enough that I've clicked on articles in my google news feed and various articles about data science, cybersecurity, etc. show up as recommended articles for me every day now.

- Someone else mentioned this in a way, but it's in your best interest to develop your skills with logic and system thinking to facilitate your problem solving skills. There are courses devoted to this. I would add continuing to hone your skill in math is useful as well, especially if you gravitate towards data science.

- Be prepared to join groups on Discord (but be awere of scammers) and Telegram, get on Github, etc. and volunteer on projects as you start to build skills and make a portfolio. Work begets work.

- Before you commit more money to buying courses, etc., you might also try free resources like:

freecodecamp
Freecodecamp has a ton of online courses, tutorials, certifications, etc. and a lot of supplementary youtube content.

Another good resource is Open Culture:
Open Culture
Scroll down to the Comp Sci section and there are hundreds of courses taught by professors from Stanford, MIT, Georgia Tech, Princeton, etc. as well as directly from Amazon, Google, etc. I think all of these are free to take if you are content to just learn. Many have an option to pay if you want to formally get credit / certified for taking the course.

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Often I’ve seen on here people saying learn to code. So much so that I know it’s kinda became a running joke. I’ve actually been doing a bit of research on learning about it. I’ve purchased a few introductory books just trying to get a general understanding of it all. I’ve also considered enrolling in a coding bootcamp. I even see that LSU offers one. My question is that if I completed a coding bootcamp would I be likely to land a job in the field and what kind of entry level pay would I be looking at roughly if so? . This is something that’s interested me a long time so I’m trying to do my due diligence on looking into it. Any tips or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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The common misconception in the past is that being a software developer was this rockstar job where you got all sorts of glory and paid a shitload of money. That's simply not true in reality... at least not with every job in the field. Yes, it can be highly fun and rewarding, but it can be an absolute miserable burnout inducing experience as well. I started my career in software engineering and have a degree in it, but I would never want to spend 40 hours a week working in a compiler.

I'm a product of "learn to code" and now manage 2 development teams, so I can give you some advice.

Bootcamps are not worth it IMO. They're incredibly expensive and you won't learn much more than what's on youtube. I also don't think the networking is beneficial as you'll need more demonstrated experience than what you'll do in the bootcamp to get a position worth the investment.

Some of the best SWEs I've worked with are self taught because they have put in the effort to get good at what they do in their outside time. My CS grads really only do the bare minimum to get by as its only a "job" for them. When hiring juniors, I look for someone with a broad portfolio of demonstrated work that indicates they not only know the basics of coding, but are knowledgeable of APIs, cloud services like AWS or GCP, containerization, databases, etc. Most of the "good first project" examples you see are too basic. You really need to be able to build and deploy an application to not get passed over. A good example would be a sports betting mobile app that is gathering public information, simulating matches, and giving you odds for bets on future games. Something that works with video or audio is also more beneficial than just text. A basic to-do app is seen as amateur these days. You should have an active github profile or portfolio website to showcase your work. This will be the difference in landing a 50k vs 100k job.

There is far more web development work available, so it will be easier to find a job doing that, but some people don't care for it. Changing the shape of a button on a website is pretty boring, but it's easier to get your foot in the door with frontend or fullstack work. Some notable technologies are React and Angular, which have a learning curve, but you'll likely need to be competent in one framework. Look into stacks such as MEAN and MERN and know what each of them do and how they work together.

AI/ML/Datascience is super sexy right, but it's not practical to obtain these at entry level, IMO.

IF you can get good at data structures and algorithms (ie. you can solve and explain a leetcode hard in <30 minutes), you can break into big tech with very little experience, but this will take extreme dedication because people do it competitively and have been for years.

Here is a list of companies that don't do whiteboarding style interviews

Consider start ups as they'll usually take whatever they can get and you will be thrown to the wolves but learn an awful lot in the process. It'll be a rollercoaster but if you can last a year, you'll have the experience you need to make a career out of it.

Lastly, start getting involved with open source work. If you have contributions to an active project, you'll be ahead of the other applicants. Working with production software is different - reading and understanding someone's else's code can be challenging. This is a great way to get that experience and the maintainers will gladly accept the help and mentor you along the way. Best of luck.

Any monkey can code and frick it all up.


Learn to Test (TDD / automated testing / Continuous Delivery):

Practical Test Pyramid - Martin Fowler

Look into books and articles by Uncle Bob, Martin Fowler, & Andy Hunt

Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship Robert C. Martin

Manifesto for Software Craftmanship

Pragmatic Programmer

Manifesto for Agile Software Development

Refactoring & Design Patterns

SOLID