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Started By
Message
Fed leaves interest rates unchanged and hints at 3 rate cuts in 2024.DowJones sets record.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 12/13/23 at 1:49 pm
EDIT: Following the Fed's FOMC meeting statement, the DowJones 30 Industrial Average set a new record high close today, closing at 37,090.24, blowing past the previous DJ record high closing which was 36,700.65.
The S&P closed at a new 2023 high at 4,707.09.
Original OP: "Dow Jones 30 Industrial Average flirting with closing at an all-time record high...currently at 36,949.
All-time record high close is 36,700.65 on January 4, 2022.
S&P500 Index about 100 points below record high close, currently is at 4,696. All-time record high close was on January 3, 2022 @ 4,796.56."
The S&P closed at a new 2023 high at 4,707.09.
Original OP: "Dow Jones 30 Industrial Average flirting with closing at an all-time record high...currently at 36,949.
All-time record high close is 36,700.65 on January 4, 2022.
S&P500 Index about 100 points below record high close, currently is at 4,696. All-time record high close was on January 3, 2022 @ 4,796.56."
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 3:11 pm
7
Posted on 12/13/23 at 1:50 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Dow Jones 30 Industrial Average flirting with closing at an all-time record high.
Boom!!
Posted on 12/13/23 at 1:54 pm to LSURussian
bears continue to be in disbelief.
(me, i am the bear)
(me, i am the bear)
Posted on 12/13/23 at 2:02 pm to I Love Bama
quote:
bears continue to be in disbelief.
quote:
(me, i am the bear)
Posted on 12/13/23 at 2:08 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Fed leaves interest rates unchanged and hints at 3 rate cuts in 2024
Biden's internal numbers must be atrocious
Posted on 12/13/23 at 2:14 pm to boogiewoogie1978
bingo!
Posted on 12/13/23 at 2:16 pm to LSURussian
S&P 500 within 2% of closing high
Posted on 12/13/23 at 2:26 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Fed leaves interest rates unchanged and hints at 3 rate cuts in 2024
Frick yes, it's a bear party
Posted on 12/13/23 at 3:20 pm to LSURussian
MBS up big
Posted on 12/13/23 at 4:14 pm to I Love Bama
quote:
bears continue to be in disbelief.
The 2023 crash you predicted last year about this time has been so painful.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 6:25 am to I Love Bama
quote:
bears continue to be in disbelief.
(me, i am the bear)
Bard enters the chat
Yield curve remains inverted, consumer credit card debt continues to rise, credit card delinquencies continue to rise (currently up to 2012 levels), mortgage foreclosures continue to rise (still low, just below pre-COVID levels, but up 9% since last year) and inflation seems glued to the 3% mark (4% for Core).
I'm all for getting profits while they remain, but there doesn't appear to be much driving this rise beyond market hopium and the economy continuing to try to adjust to the ongoing inflation on the backs of consumer credit cards.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 6:41 am to Bard
quote:
I'm all for getting profits while they remain, but there doesn't appear to be much driving this rise beyond market hopium and the economy continuing to try to adjust to the ongoing inflation on the backs of consumer credit cards.
I have a running theory that the average person has stopped saving money in a traditional sense and just "saves their money" in the stock market.
Forced into trying to grow their money because the alternative is inflation eating it away.
95 out of 100 people in the stock market do not even know how to read a basic profit and loss statement for a small business much less a 10-k.
This post was edited on 12/14/23 at 7:01 am
Posted on 12/14/23 at 7:05 am to Bard
quote:
I'm all for getting profits while they remain, but there doesn't appear to be much driving this rise beyond market hopium and the economy continuing to try to adjust to the ongoing inflation
The market and the people in it will most likely be fine. Upper middle class and up through the wealthy will be ok albeit some pain and some isolated closures and bankruptcies they’ll survive. The crash will be brutal for lower middle class on down because when the crash occurs and the government goes bankrupt those still working and consuming and saving will scrape by. Those without the means for the above will be crushed.
quote:
I have a running theory that the average person has stopped saving money in a traditional sense and just "saves their money" in the stock market
Absolutely. You can trade stocks and mutual funds in real time through an app on your phone. Why stash money in a savings account when you can spread it around in the market and real time adjust?
This post was edited on 12/14/23 at 7:06 am
Posted on 12/14/23 at 7:24 am to LSURussian
So why would the Fed signal future rate cuts if they expect everything to be going well and the economy is expected to keep expanding through 2024? Is this a tell that they expect contraction and will need to do something about it?
Posted on 12/14/23 at 7:30 am to I Love Bama
quote:
have a running theory that the average person has stopped saving money in a traditional sense and just "saves their money" in the stock market.
There’s been a shift in recent years as rates have increased.
People are buying cd’s more today than they did 4 years ago. Same for money market funds (which hold cd’s) and treasuries.
The fed wants to lower rates for several reasons not the least of which is to lessen the burden on the US debt load.
The higher rates mean that the interest on our gov. Debt could be unsustainable with the shorter maturities and recently issued notes.
This post was edited on 12/14/23 at 7:31 am
Posted on 12/14/23 at 7:35 am to I Love Bama
quote:
have a running theory that the average person has stopped saving money in a traditional sense and just "saves their money" in the stock market.
The average person is correct because the only savings they have is whatever is put into their 401k. It has been that way for a long time.
quote:
Forced into trying to grow their money because the alternative is inflation eating it away.
Very few people carry large amounts of cash sitting in savings. Unless they are fairly old. Number 1 that has never been very smart and 2 people have never saved that much
quote:
95 out of 100 people in the stock market do not even know how to read a basic profit and loss statement for a small business much less a 10-k.
Good news for those people is that low cost indexing was always going to be advantageous for them anyways.
People used to get raked over the coals by financial managers. But luckily places like vanguard came and changed the industry.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 7:38 am to Breesus
quote:
the government goes bankrupt
I would say elaborate on what you mean when the government goes bankrupt. But I think we both know what you answer is
Posted on 12/14/23 at 8:25 am to Breesus
quote:
I have a running theory that the average person has stopped saving money in a traditional sense and just "saves their money" in the stock market
Absolutely. You can trade stocks and mutual funds in real time through an app on your phone. Why stash money in a savings account when you can spread it around in the market and real time adjust?
For sure. They've made it so easy, anyone can be a stock guru. Then driven by stories of friends doing really well, they sink money blindly into the market and panic sell when things don't go well.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 8:29 am to Bard
quote:
but there doesn't appear to be much driving this rise beyond market hopium and the economy continuing to try to adjust to the ongoing inflation on the backs of consumer credit cards.
That and the soaring corporate profits and cheap energy we are enjoying for the past 6+ months.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 10:07 am to I Love Bama
quote:
95 out of 100 people in the stock market do not even know how to read a basic profit and loss statement for a small business much less a 10-k.
Correct. Somewhere between 45-60% of the equities market are non-economic participants. About 90% of this board falls into this camp. Not necessarily dumb, those people are getting active managers systematically fired as they continue to outperform hedge funds and stock pickers.
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