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Jack Smith and his novel criminal legal theories are falling apart.

Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:29 pm
Posted by Timeoday
Easter Island
Member since Aug 2020
17670 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:29 pm
How does a man with a novel criminal legal theory, who has been scorned before for such activity by SCOTUS, feel he has the right to demand SCOTUS rule on whether a President can be prosecuted?

Imagine a DA files a criminal indictment against you. A few months later and before your trial, the DA asks your state supreme court if he has the right to prosecute you.

republic
This post was edited on 12/11/23 at 7:31 pm
Posted by ScottFowler
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2012
4598 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:32 pm to
Jack Smith is just playing the Lawfare Champion part for the establishment. It was supposed to make Trump too toxic, but that doesn't appear to be working...

So does the establishment choose another plan, or double-down? We will see...
Posted by LSU2ALA
Member since Jul 2018
2062 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:33 pm to
quote:

How does a man with a novel criminal legal theory, who has been scorned before for such activity by SCOTUS, feel he has the right to demand SCOTUS rule on whether a President can be prosecuted?


I don’t think I’d claim they are falling apart just yet, when SCOTUS is asking the attorneys to brief it, so they can consider it. No idea how they will rule, but this request is not a sign of it falling apart.
Posted by Speckhunter2012
Lake Charles
Member since Dec 2012
8146 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:33 pm to
quote:

How does a man with a novel criminal legal theory, who has been scorned before for such activity by SCOTUS, feel he has the right to demand SCOTUS rule on whether a President can be prosecuted?


OMB. They think the Rule of Law does not apply to him and many of his supporters. The ends justify the means.
Posted by Timeoday
Easter Island
Member since Aug 2020
17670 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:47 pm to
At what point do these people realize Americans do not care about judicial decisions outside of killing a baby in the womb?

Appears Smith wants attention, don't ya think?
Posted by LSUvet72
Member since Sep 2013
13103 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:47 pm to
Jack shifting in his legal pants because if he convicts Trump and case gets overturned he may get his license lifted because of his past BS cases he has lost before the SCOTUS.

He’s wants to get the blessings before the court before he convicts Trump.

Court will probably say ‘ screw you’ we will only judge when case is over.

Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54755 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:48 pm to
quote:

feel he has the right to demand SCOTUS rule on whether a President can be prosecuted?


I would think team Trump would like this to happen?
Posted by Timeoday
Easter Island
Member since Aug 2020
17670 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 6:53 pm to
quote:

I would think team Trump would like this to happen?


Oh, I agree. But generally SCOTUS does not entertain legal theory without lower court arguments. I really do not expect SCOTUS to hear it due to judicial precedence.
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54755 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

Oh, I agree. But generally SCOTUS does not entertain legal theory without lower court arguments. I really do not expect SCOTUS to hear it due to judicial precedence.


Wtf?
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
18498 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:42 pm to
POTUS does have accountability. It’s called impeachment. He was acquitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s dismissed. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if they make it go through appellate to hear more opinions.
Posted by Riverside
Member since Jul 2022
8339 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:43 pm to
It’s an interlocutory ruling. The fact that Smith wants the court to rule on the immunity issue pre-trial is curious to me. I think Smith understands that if SCOTUS grants the writ, the case would be argued in the spring and then decided in October. If Trump loses, which he probably will on total immunity, then it becomes an October surprise that the dems can use to persuade undecided voters that Trump is going to prison—even though if Trump won—the case would be stayed based on Paula Jones v. Bill Clinton.
Posted by Timeoday
Easter Island
Member since Aug 2020
17670 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:46 pm to
I agree there are solid arguments for indicting an impeached, though acquitted, POTUS. But what I am reading here is a special counsel for the DOJ indicted a POTUS then wants to ask SCOTUS if he can prosecute the charges.

Posted by TigerAttorney
Member since Nov 2017
4426 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:50 pm to
quote:

So does the establishment choose another plan, or double-down? We will see..

Yea. They are actively trying to give him the JFK treatment.

Layers and layers of world class private security over his secret service. The man is never alone. Only stays at his properties. Only flies in his aircraft.

If they can’t JFK him lookout for something dramatic happening next year. They will not let him back in the white house without a fight.
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
18498 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:53 pm to
quote:

But what I am reading here is a special counsel for the DOJ indicted a POTUS then wants to ask SCOTUS if he can prosecute the charges.


am I not supposed to do that? Is this not ok?
This post was edited on 12/11/23 at 8:17 pm
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
16978 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:57 pm to
I wouldn’t be surprised if they ruled that the acquittal in the senate legally precludes the criminal charges on a separation of powers theory.

The only other case that has dealt with it I believe involved Nixon who was impeached but who resigned before he was tried in the senate.

Furthermore- nothing would prohibit the SCOTUS from sanctioning Smith for bringing this case on a relatively novel legal theory - especially in light of the acquittal by the senate.

I just don’t think it bodes well for Smith or Chutkan that they want to hear the matter on an expedited basis. If the judges thought that immunity didn’t apply, they would wait till after the trial to hear it.
Posted by Trevaylin
south texas
Member since Feb 2019
9634 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 7:57 pm to
John Roberts used to be pretty big on standing requirements. Be interesting to see jacks reasoning to bypass the appellate ct.
Posted by McChowder
Hammond
Member since Dec 2006
5721 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 8:01 pm to
It's a rush to put him in jail before votes are cast in the general primary. They are preemptively heading off a lengthy appeal. They are getting desperate.
Posted by Riverside
Member since Jul 2022
8339 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 8:02 pm to
It went to the appellate court and Trump lost. Smith is trying to create an October surprise by enticing SCOTUS. This is not the best argument for Trump in the DC case. It’s a trap!
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
18498 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 8:15 pm to
quote:

just don’t think it bodes well for Smith or Chutkan that they want to hear the matter on an expedited basis.


It telegraphs their motive as being political in nature.

I expect SCOTUS to make a landmark ruling and straddle the fine line of leaving a POTUS open to prosecution under the right conditions, but dismissing these charges due to impeachment acquittal and how this case is being handed.
Posted by Trevaylin
south texas
Member since Feb 2019
9634 posts
Posted on 12/11/23 at 8:33 pm to
full appellate court?????
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