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re: Are plant-based protein powders as effective as animal-based ones?
Posted on 11/12/23 at 6:34 pm to Grillades
Posted on 11/12/23 at 6:34 pm to Grillades
Somebody gave me a scoop of plant based protein and I broke out in hives for a week
Nowadays the only thing plant based about me is where I get my pay check
Nowadays the only thing plant based about me is where I get my pay check
Posted on 11/15/23 at 5:12 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
The real debate is whether or not serum cholesterol even matters at the levels at which statins are prescribed. That’s a debate that doesn’t see the light of day because statins make too many people too much money.
Science has known for about 30 years that atherosclerosis has nothing to do with cholesterol, and everything to do with the carrier protein that the cholesterol is carried around in ie, the lipoprotein.
It does not matter one iota how much cholesterol is in the lipoprotein. All that matters is the number of lipoproteins, as measured by an LDL-p or an apoB.
The reasons statins fail so much is because doctors untrained in lipidology are still looking at cholesterol content (LDL-C) rather than number of apoB particles. They treat to a certain level of cholesterol content, which as discussed, is irrelevant, so people are still having heart attacks while on statins.
If they bothered to follow the research that's been going on for over 2 decades, instead of the guidelines which are way behind the times, there would be considerably less residual risk, that is people having heart attacks while on statins.
The TLDR is that statins do work, but almost all practitioners are looking at the wrong landing spot.
This post was edited on 11/15/23 at 5:14 pm
Posted on 11/15/23 at 6:43 pm to emanresu
quote:
Science has known for about 30 years that atherosclerosis has nothing to do with cholesterol, and everything to do with the carrier protein that the cholesterol is carried around in ie, the lipoprotein.
It does not matter one iota how much cholesterol is in the lipoprotein. All that matters is the number of lipoproteins, as measured by an LDL-p or an apoB.
The reasons statins fail so much is because doctors untrained in lipidology are still looking at cholesterol content (LDL-C) rather than number of apoB particles. They treat to a certain level of cholesterol content, which as discussed, is irrelevant, so people are still having heart attacks while on statins.
If they bothered to follow the research that's been going on for over 2 decades, instead of the guidelines which are way behind the times, there would be considerably less residual risk, that is people having heart attacks while on statins.
The TLDR is that statins do work, but almost all practitioners are looking at the wrong landing spot
So if I want to reduce my artery plaque risk...best course of action if the cause is mainly genetic? I don't look at the dietary cholesterol as much as I'm looking at the fats, but what actually helps vs. just reduces making it worse?
Posted on 11/15/23 at 8:50 pm to calcotron
Best course of action is 6-8000 iu of nattokinase and 8 oz 100% pure pomegranate juice not from concentrate. Clean up your diet to almost exclusively Whole Foods and lifting weights. Do for 9 months consistent with minimal alcohol and you will see major difference
Posted on 11/16/23 at 2:12 pm to lsu777
Do the nattokinase and pomegranate juice clean or prevent the plaque? I'm all over that if so. I had a calcium scan and score of 8.5, which is not high but also not 0. At 45 and with the family history, I want to stop or reverse the buildup.
I'm pretty good on diet but made some changes to sub beef and pork with chicken and venison more. Exercise isn't my issue.
I'm pretty good on diet but made some changes to sub beef and pork with chicken and venison more. Exercise isn't my issue.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:57 pm to calcotron
Pomegranate juice reverses the condition. I read a few articles about the clinical trial which show that the PJ is effective at reversing blockages. Here is the link: Dr. Farrah - Pomegranate Juice That is one of many articles that state the same conclusion. A Google search will turn up a bunch more.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 1:47 am to BigPerm30
quote:
I have a milk protein allergy. I can’t do whey or caisine protein.
Same here. I can consume dairy in moderation but whey is too much of an overload. Gives me bad reflux.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 10:02 am to Grillades
There is not a lot of scientific literature supporting pomegranate juice for atherosclerosis. Most of the data I’ve seen comes from one guy in Israel that rules a lipid research center, which should give you pause. The study you cited had 19 patients, was single center and was unblinded which allows for tons of bias, not a high quality study. The same author seemed to understand that so was involved in a much bigger, multicenter, double blinded, randomized, higher quality followup study that showed no difference. They scoured the data retrospectively looking for something and found a subset of the group where they saw a difference but that is just another form of bias. To be trusted that subgroup would have to be tested in a randomized prospective blinded trial.
I’m not talking about you, but there are people on this site that form conclusions and tell other people what to do based on poor quality evidence that is likely to be untrue because they don’t understand how to interpret scientific literature. It is an absolutely critical skill if you want to understand these studies and how they fit into the broader scope. I think Peter Attia did a couple hour podcast on it that is probably a good place to start
I’m not talking about you, but there are people on this site that form conclusions and tell other people what to do based on poor quality evidence that is likely to be untrue because they don’t understand how to interpret scientific literature. It is an absolutely critical skill if you want to understand these studies and how they fit into the broader scope. I think Peter Attia did a couple hour podcast on it that is probably a good place to start
Posted on 11/17/23 at 10:18 am to emanresu
quote:
Science has known for about 30 years that atherosclerosis has nothing to do with cholesterol, and everything to do with the carrier protein that the cholesterol is carried around in ie, the lipoprotein. It does not matter one iota how much cholesterol is in the lipoprotein. All that matters is the number of lipoproteins, as measured by an LDL-p or an apoB. The reasons statins fail so much is because doctors untrained in lipidology are still looking at cholesterol content (LDL-C) rather than number of apoB particles.
Why does the number of apoB particles matter? Meaning what is the mechanism by which they cause heart disease?
Posted on 11/18/23 at 10:31 am to Grillades
Plant based protein will never replace animal proteins. Only dumbass vegans think that they can
Posted on 11/18/23 at 12:03 pm to Grillades
quote:I know this is not your fault - you are just another victim of the propaganda - but it really makes me seethe that people in your position are being given LITERALLY the opposite advice they should be.
I am not supposed to eat any red meat, eggs, or shellfish.
Posted on 11/18/23 at 12:05 pm to calcotron
quote:Eating whole foods and less calories of them overall.
So if I want to reduce my artery plaque risk...best course of action if the cause is mainly genetic? I don't look at the dietary cholesterol as much as I'm looking at the fats, but what actually helps vs. just reduces making it worse?
Posted on 11/20/23 at 10:47 am to Earnest_P
apoB or LDL-p is what matters these are measures of the number of particles (lipoproteins). LDL-C is the measure (or calculation) of the total cholesterol.
On average these things generally align; however, the issue is for 3 people with the exact same LDL-C (High):
Person 1 very large lipoproteins (apoB count would be lower)
Person 2 average lipoprotein size (apoB count average)
Person 3 very small lipoproteins (apoB count much higher)
For those three people the "guidelines" all say statin to lower LDL-C. Person 3 is at significantly greater risk and standard of care may not lower their cholesterol levels enough if treating to an LDL-C level. Person 3 has MORE/SMALLER apoB particles, which are more atherogenic and more likely to cause plaques in the arterial walls. Person 2 is average & guidelines are probably fine. Person 1 may not even be at risk.
LDL-C isn't wrong - apoB is just a better measurement, because it incorporates particle size. Also price of apoB tests are negligible (US is way behind Europe on this -- LDL-p tests is very expensive, relative to others).
ApoB is measuring the size of the particles per above. Smaller particles more easily cause plaques in your arterial walls. Plaques then can rupture and you can die. This is not an opinion, it is a known progression of disease that is the leading cause of death in the USA.
On average these things generally align; however, the issue is for 3 people with the exact same LDL-C (High):
Person 1 very large lipoproteins (apoB count would be lower)
Person 2 average lipoprotein size (apoB count average)
Person 3 very small lipoproteins (apoB count much higher)
For those three people the "guidelines" all say statin to lower LDL-C. Person 3 is at significantly greater risk and standard of care may not lower their cholesterol levels enough if treating to an LDL-C level. Person 3 has MORE/SMALLER apoB particles, which are more atherogenic and more likely to cause plaques in the arterial walls. Person 2 is average & guidelines are probably fine. Person 1 may not even be at risk.
LDL-C isn't wrong - apoB is just a better measurement, because it incorporates particle size. Also price of apoB tests are negligible (US is way behind Europe on this -- LDL-p tests is very expensive, relative to others).
quote:
Why does the number of apoB particles matter? Meaning what is the mechanism by which they cause heart disease?
ApoB is measuring the size of the particles per above. Smaller particles more easily cause plaques in your arterial walls. Plaques then can rupture and you can die. This is not an opinion, it is a known progression of disease that is the leading cause of death in the USA.
This post was edited on 11/20/23 at 10:51 am
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