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re: Trump declass'd everything why does the DOJ and media keep saying the docs are classified?
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:44 pm to loogaroo
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:44 pm to loogaroo
quote:
It only applies to a lesser office.
I don’t see it in the statute.
Can you point me in the direction
This post was edited on 6/9/23 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:44 pm to Fun Bunch
Don’t assume. This is the same crowd that impeached him over a whistleblower who wasn’t party to the phone call he was whistleblowing on. The same crowd that launched Crossfire Hurricane with zero evidence, then lied to get warrants.
This post was edited on 6/9/23 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:45 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
You can’t just take any document or item and keep it after your presidency, just because you had access to it during your presidency.
Not that I do either, necessarily, but I’m pretty certain that the vast majority of people weighing in on this have no idea what they’re talking about. Bordering on unanimously so even. An outgoing President does indeed have the right to claim and declare any document(s) personal in nature, which if deemed so carries a different connotation altogether. But wait, the Archives does also have the right to issue official opposition to any such claims and declarations by that President….which easily has the potential to be a drawn out process, the “litigation” of such a matter. In the meantime the President still has possession of the material given the fact that he or she would be holding steady to their position of “personal papers.”
I don’t think this is actually a rare occurrence at all. The process plays out subsequent to every Presidential end term.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:47 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
In general, many feel it is politically motivated. And if this was a Democrat, he would not be prosecuted for it.
Lol, you think? Joe has them, Hillary had the, Bill had them, and Obama had them. Even Pence had them.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:50 pm to thetempleowl
Thank you!!
That is not possible under the Presidential Records Act.
That's what people don't understand. Mike Davis explains it over and over again. As well as Mark Levin.
quote:
He is being prosecuted under the espionage act.
That is not possible under the Presidential Records Act.
That's what people don't understand. Mike Davis explains it over and over again. As well as Mark Levin.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:51 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Can you point me in the direction
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:52 pm to loogaroo
He’s being charged under 18 793e
Posted on 6/9/23 at 4:53 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
WAS the president, is a lot different than IS the president.
Yes if he stole the documents after Biden was sworn in, but that's not the case here.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:20 pm to loogaroo
quote:That doesn’t matter though, as if he took them 30 seconds before Biden was sworn in is somehow different than if he took them 2 minutes later.
Yes if he stole the documents after Biden was sworn in, but that's not the case here.
As a FORMER president, there are documents he can no longer possess, regardless of when he first possessed them.
Now we’re not usually talking about anything egregious as this, but it’s bound to happen. So then the government realizes “we are missing some documents,” requests the documents, and any non-idiot would return them, for the government to review and then put them where they below. And sometimes the government will even decide “these actually belong to you” and return them.
That said, while any non-idiot would return them, only an idiot would return some but refuse to return a bunch, lie about it, then try to hide and destroy evidence of it, forcing the government to get a search warrant.
So now the idiot is facing potential criminal violation, but that idiot might be ok if the documents are not clearly documents he cannot posses, that are covered under a law
for National Defense Information and require even presidents to access them in secure storage facilities.
But these are really obvious documents, so it takes a special level of idiocy to return them, lie about it, then get to hide/destroy evidence. And that level of idiocy will result in a criminal indictment, and almost assuredly a conviction, especially if that idiot has admitted to the stuff on a taped interview and involved other people in the idiocy.
Now one wouldn’t think someone who was president would reach those levels of idiocy, but apparently Trump has decided to prove that wrong here.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:25 pm to loogaroo
quote:Except Jonathan Turley, Andrew McCarthy, Andrew Napolitano, etc., have explained that this is not the case, and both Turley and McCarthy have admitted that this is a strong and damning case. And they not only argued against other cases (like the Bragg indictment), Turley has been especially inclined to defend Trump, even providing testimony to defend him during impeachment proceedings.
That is not possible under the Presidential Records Act. That's what people don't understand.
Mike Davis explains it over and over again. As well as Mark Levin.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:28 pm to buckeye_vol
You have any actual credentials to prove the level of expertise that you’re proffering there, or you just talking out your arse? Or talking out the side of your neck, if you will….
No shame in completely making everything up. Everyone does it. Literally every single one. Excepting for me of course. I kid, probably me too usually.
No shame in completely making everything up. Everyone does it. Literally every single one. Excepting for me of course. I kid, probably me too usually.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:33 pm to davyjones
quote:No special level of expertise, but nobody in this thread has that. But one doesn’t need special expertise to understand something so obvious here. But plenty of experts, even those who have defended Trump, or at least called out the government, in other situations, like McCarthy and Turley have explained that this is damning and a strong indictment.
You have any actual credentials to prove the level of expertise that you’re proffering there, or you just talking out your arse? Or talking out the side of your neck, if you will
Of course, the government has to prove the case and provide the evidence they listed in the indictment, but if those things are shown to be true, then it’s clearly going to be tough for Trump to win.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:46 pm to davyjones
quote:
davyjones
Honest question - have you read the 49 page indictment in it's entirety? Most importantly, the part where it lists which documents and the content of those documents he kept?
It's nothing that could be argued as "personal records" to any logical individual. It was lots of info about foreign military movements and foreign military capabilities, as well as info about our military movements and capabilities. One or two about our nuclear arms and some about our response plans if a foreign military attacks us or attacks another foreign nation.
It's not a good look, as well as all the actions he took to move them around and hide them that they have dead-to-rights proof of. I hate it because it's obviously a partisan witch hunt, but he did himself absolutely no favors by doing everything he did - on camera and in written text, recorded, etc.
This post was edited on 6/9/23 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:46 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
That doesn’t matter though, as if he took them 30 seconds before Biden was sworn in is somehow different than if he took them 2 minutes later.
But it does though.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:47 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Except Jonathan Turley, Andrew McCarthy, Andrew Napolitano, etc., have explained that this is not the case, and both Turley and McCarthy have admitted that this is a strong and damning case. And they not only argued against other cases (like the Bragg indictment), Turley has been especially inclined to defend Trump, even providing testimony to defend him during impeachment proceedings.
Not possible under the Presidential Records Act. End of story.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:50 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
He’s being charged under 18 793e
Again...Impossible for a president.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:51 pm to masoncj
quote:
Again their is no precedent here other Biden going after his rival
There is no precedent because until now nobody has been dumb enough to claim they just willed to declassify a bunch of classified documents without any kind of CYA exec order or paperwork whatsoever. It's just been basic common sense until about 15 minutes ago that some documentation might be helpful when declassifying material that could put you in prison. If Trump really claims that he can just declass-by-thought then at best, he's f'ing stupid. The guy has dealt with contract law and lawyers his whole life and didn't think to put all this life-ruining declassification stuff on a single piece of paper? Why not? Who believes that bullshyte?
The President also has an absolute power to pardon people for federal crimes, for any reason. When Trump pardoned all the folks he pardoned did he just do a Jedi hand-wave and proclaim "I pardon thee!"... or was there, maybe, some paperwork involved? A piece of paper with a Presidential signature on it to make it official? Legally-binding? At least to prove that person was pardoned in case questions were raised later? Yeah, that.
Even if the Supreme Court miraculously bails Trump out with a decision saying an ex-President does in fact have the power to declassify anything with a mere thought without even telling anyone - we should still be embarrassed that he thinks that's OK.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 5:51 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
That was dated January 19. How stupid is Trump...and by extension Trumptards?
quote:
Biden was sworn in January 20th. Moron.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 6:05 pm to GumboPot
If trump declassified them by merely thinking about it then maybe Biden reclassified them by thinking about it.
I really can't believe there are people out there that believe the "he declassified them by thinking about it" excuse. He only came up with that excuse after the "fbi planted those docs" excuse fell through.
I really can't believe there are people out there that believe the "he declassified them by thinking about it" excuse. He only came up with that excuse after the "fbi planted those docs" excuse fell through.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 6:06 pm to GumboPot
Because the documents they found had nothing to do with Crossfire Hurricane
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