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Started By
Message
2
Posted on 5/24/23 at 8:47 am to jangalang
quote:
Glock is not a model. You’re right, however the trigger mechanism is the exact same in every single model within the different generations.
Bump.
You can say that about Sig and the rest of their weapons. So why are they only focused on 320?
320 isn’t really a standard issue. I have a 226 and that might even be closer to standard issue.
Would you buy your wife a specific weapon that has been embroiled in lawsuits for years?
If trained LEO’s can’t help but to shoot themselves with this one particular model…
Posted on 5/24/23 at 8:54 am to jangalang
quote:
You can say that about Sig and the rest of their weapons. So why are they only focused on 320? 320 isn’t really a standard issue. I have a 226 and that might even be closer to standard issue.
Not following your argument?
Also, why is it a training issue with a Glock and it’s the guns fault with the Sig?
I have 2 p226’s. Older West German made. They’re awesome.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 9:06 am to bbvdd
quote:
Also, why is it a training issue with a Glock and it’s the guns fault with the Sig?
All I know is your article points out there were spiderwebs in the guns from lack of training. There were also mutltiple models with ND’s then, not just one.
I have three different Sig weapons. I never said anything about Sig. If there there is a specific model and a pattern of negligent discharges then I’m not picking that model. Simple as that. You might think you’re an expert and can handle any weapon, but there is a sharp line between being an expert and attentive versus well experienced and complacent.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 9:07 am to jangalang
quote:
If that’s across different models why should I give af????
The issued weapon of the DC police was the Glock
Need to do more research but I believe it was the Glock 17.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 9:11 am to jangalang
quote:
If there there is a specific model and a pattern of negligent discharges then I’m not picking that model. Simple as that.
That’s the thing. The question becomes is it the gun or is it negligence?
It’s likely negligence but to save their job the officers are saying the ”gun just went off”.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 9:22 am to jangalang
quote:
If trained LEO’s can’t help but to shoot themselves…
“Allegedly” shoot themselves.
Also, many LEOs are not extensively trained in weapons handling. They qualify and that’s about it. Ask them what weapon they carry and a surprising number don’t know. They certainly don’t know what ammo they are carrying. We’ve all seen the videos of “trained” cops having a ND and other unsafe firearms handling.
This happened when the 320 was initially released and I’ve never seen anything proven in court.
Could this be other manufacturers “prodding” this because Sig is taking the lion’s share of government contracts? Trying to hurt their market value?
Posted on 5/24/23 at 9:35 am to SpookeyTiger
That’s very interesting because it does seem like 320 is getting picked on if it’s functioning as intended.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 9:44 am to Landmass
Sounds like government incompetence....but I'm sure they did nothing wrong and had the best training that our tax dollars could afford. 
Posted on 5/24/23 at 10:25 am to Landmass
The 320 was Sigs first striker fired pistol.
This is from the 320 wiki page.
Regardless, if a pistol is firing without the trigger being pulled there is an issue. No it doesnt happen when its in the nigthstand, but what happens during a fight and its slammed on the ground multiple times?
ETA: I didnt know who James Tertin was, he's the head of manufacturing at Magnum Research. I guess that qualifies as a gunsmith.
quote:
Unlike other striker-fired guns, the P320 is "effectively fully cocked at rest", since its striker is under constant spring pressure, which is released when the trigger is pulled. Most such guns, including the P320's military variant, have external safeties (like thumb safeties), which the P320's civilian variant lacks. According to gunsmith James Tertin, this is a rare and "uniquely dangerous" configuration.[5] Sean Toner, the P320 designer, has acknowledged in court that "U.S. standards are not very stringent."[35] There are no U.S. (government) standards on gun safety, since blocked by law.
This is from the 320 wiki page.
Regardless, if a pistol is firing without the trigger being pulled there is an issue. No it doesnt happen when its in the nigthstand, but what happens during a fight and its slammed on the ground multiple times?
ETA: I didnt know who James Tertin was, he's the head of manufacturing at Magnum Research. I guess that qualifies as a gunsmith.
This post was edited on 5/24/23 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 5/24/23 at 10:48 am to jangalang
quote:
trained LEO’s
I've never met a cop who wasn't god awful with gun safety.
Basically like handing a gun to a toddler
Posted on 5/24/23 at 3:04 pm to Landmass
1. I want to see how many of these guns were pre/post trigger fix
2. I want to see how many of the pre-fix guns were sent in, were fixed, returned and had an incident connected with it.
3. I'd like to see the breakdown of each scenario as to what exactly happened, i.e. if the the guns "went off" while being handled or just sitting in the holster.
The vast majority of the time, these situations almost always come back to a training issue (lack thereof)
2. I want to see how many of the pre-fix guns were sent in, were fixed, returned and had an incident connected with it.
3. I'd like to see the breakdown of each scenario as to what exactly happened, i.e. if the the guns "went off" while being handled or just sitting in the holster.
The vast majority of the time, these situations almost always come back to a training issue (lack thereof)
Posted on 5/24/23 at 3:13 pm to upgrayedd
How many discharged while
In hand
In holster on belt
Sitting on a flat surface
Etc
I suspect it’s most or all #1.
You shot Marvin!
In hand
In holster on belt
Sitting on a flat surface
Etc
I suspect it’s most or all #1.
You shot Marvin!
Posted on 5/24/23 at 3:15 pm to X123F45
quote:
I've never met a cop who wasn't god awful with gun safety.
Yep. Small town USA where I am from, the cops are guys that didn’t go to college, had 20 other jobs and finally got into law enforcement. They flip and flop between PD and SD.
Was always funny. Huh…Lil Wayne was selling drugs last month and this month he’s got a badge.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 3:23 pm to X123F45
quote:
Basically like handing a gun to a toddler
What a stupid thing to say.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 3:51 pm to concrete_tiger
quote:
I suspect it’s most or all #1.
Yeah, I saw a video of a cop claiming his 320 just went off while he was drawing. In the video you can clearly see his finger in the trigger guard.
Cops in general aren't super well trained, so I'd think that these are mostly, if not all, ND's being blamed on a rare problem that has been fixed.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 3:53 pm to jangalang
quote:
Would you buy your wife a specific weapon that has been embroiled in lawsuits for years?
Well yes, because I have 4 P320's. Not a single one of them has ever fired except for when I have pulled the trigger.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 4:05 pm to jangalang
quote:
You can say that about Sig and the rest of their weapons. So why are they only focused on 320?
320 isn’t really a standard issue.
What is this supposed to mean? They're issued across a wide variety of PD's in the US.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 4:12 pm to jangalang
quote:
What a stupid thing to say.
You're right. A toddler hasn't grown complacent.
Posted on 5/24/23 at 4:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
What is this supposed to mean? They're issued across a wide variety of PD's in the US.
I don’t understand his argument either. If I understood him correctly he claimed the trigger mechanism is the same across all Sig Sauers.
quote:
quote:
Glock is not a model. You’re right, however the trigger mechanism is the exact same in every single model within the different generations.
You can say that about Sig and the rest of their weapons.
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