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Started By
Message
Mostly white arrogance
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:21 am
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:21 am
quote:
Alan Armstrong
·
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Former Retired Computer Professional (1975–2000)Updated 15h
Question:
A software-engineer colleague once said, "Hire Indians if there is lots of basic 'grunt work' to be done and hire Westerners if you have hard problems that require cutting-edge innovation". Is this offensive? Or is it actually true to some degree?
Answer:
I spent the last 30 years of my working life in IT, including one very big database where we had ten nationalities all working together and everyone knew some stuff others didn’t, so we were always learning from each other.
Recently I’ve spent a year of my retirement on a project led by a PhD in computer engineering from India now living in my country. His knowledge was amazing - he knew everything I did and over a hundred more programs I’d never heard of. Difficult accent to understand but it was worth the struggle.
And what he gave us was “cutting edge innovation.” Backed up by real-world examples of unrecognised need for change like the demise of Kodak and an analysis of the issues Microsoft are now facing.
So India may be well known for rank-and-file contract programmers, but it also has talent that’s as good or better than any in the West. I see your colleague’s statement as mostly white arrogance.
Comments disabled...
17
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:21 am to Meauxjeaux
seems like a racist statement
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:22 am to Meauxjeaux
White arrogance has been replaced by white laziness.
We're certainly not smarter.
We're certainly not smarter.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:22 am to Meauxjeaux
Hello, My name is Mike.. I'm with Dell's customer service..
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:24 am to Meauxjeaux
No race or nationality has a monopoly on intelligence or hard work.
I’d say that comment is more American arrogance than white arrogance.
I’d say that comment is more American arrogance than white arrogance.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:24 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:Yes.
Hire Indians if there is lots of basic 'grunt work' to be done and hire Westerners if you have hard problems that require cutting-edge innovation".
Is this offensive?
quote:Also yes.
Or is it actually true to some degree?
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:28 am to Meauxjeaux
They're not better at grunt work; they just have five times as many people as we do to do it.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:29 am to Meauxjeaux
It's incredibly idiotic. You can look at the children of those Indian engineers as a case study. Most are highly educated in a diverse set of fields and have an outsize role in several areas given their relatively small demographic. It's such a stupid notion.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:39 am to Meauxjeaux
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, just keep it to yourself
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:47 am to Meauxjeaux
Indians and East Asians naturally are high IQ like Western Europeans.
Any high IQ person is capable of advanced problem solving and innovation. Whether they can do it largely depends on experience and an education that develops such skills. So the quote in OP probably was true at one point, but as time goes on and that demographic is submerged in technology and attends universities in their home country that now focus on developing those skills, they go from “intelligent grunt employees” to now being problem solvers and innovators because they’ve spent years applying themselves.
If you naturally have a high IQ you can be capable of anything. However groups with sub 100 IQs will never be more than worker bees because their brain cannot be developed to a stage where they can innovate and problem solve
Any high IQ person is capable of advanced problem solving and innovation. Whether they can do it largely depends on experience and an education that develops such skills. So the quote in OP probably was true at one point, but as time goes on and that demographic is submerged in technology and attends universities in their home country that now focus on developing those skills, they go from “intelligent grunt employees” to now being problem solvers and innovators because they’ve spent years applying themselves.
If you naturally have a high IQ you can be capable of anything. However groups with sub 100 IQs will never be more than worker bees because their brain cannot be developed to a stage where they can innovate and problem solve
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:53 am to Meauxjeaux
I worked in an IT department that had administrators from the start.. All White guys. I was hired as a grunt. As time went by I asked the boss "Why no Black workers".. I was told that Black people weren't known for wanting to be in the IT field.. Whenever they did hire any new workers it was open to all races and only White guys would apply. Sometime later there were lay offs (2012) and the bosses were told to make the department more diverse. So they laid off older White people to hire younger Black people. Or they laid off big salaries to hire cheaper salaries.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 12:06 pm to Meauxjeaux
I have managed both American and offshore software developers. In general, I find the offshore devs to be less intelligent and educated than Americans with similar credentials. This includes not just India but Eastern Europe, Russia, the Balkans, the Phillipines, etc.
However, I also find American developers in 2023 to be pretty fricking lazy, frankly, especially the younger ones. My generation accepted that it wasn't necessarily a 9 to 5 job, but we were well paid and getting to do something we enjoyed, so we accepted it. I do not see that attitude from most younger devs.
However, I also find American developers in 2023 to be pretty fricking lazy, frankly, especially the younger ones. My generation accepted that it wasn't necessarily a 9 to 5 job, but we were well paid and getting to do something we enjoyed, so we accepted it. I do not see that attitude from most younger devs.
This post was edited on 2/1/23 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 2/1/23 at 12:12 pm to Meauxjeaux
This all depends on what area of IT we’re talking about. Indian nationality outpaces any other in my experience when it comes to application development. They are hyper focused in this area and are good at it. Switch over to Cybersecurity or network engineering then that swings more to Caucasian. Database engineering is somewhat of a mixed bag from what I’m seeing.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 12:16 pm to Meauxjeaux
Westerners, especially Americans (of nearly any race) innovate. Indians in particular, due to their culture, tend not to.
I work for an Indian conglomerate now, and have worked with "American" Indians and "Indian" Indians.
The latter are infuriating to work with for the most part.
I work for an Indian conglomerate now, and have worked with "American" Indians and "Indian" Indians.
The latter are infuriating to work with for the most part.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 12:35 pm to Meauxjeaux
As one Indian once told me....
Please read in your best Indian Accent for authenticity.
"There are 1.2 billion people in India. You only see in America the smarter ones that left. The average Bhartiy has an IQ of 78 but, by numbers, there are over 3x as many people in India with a 125+ IQ than are in America."
125+ is in the 95th percentile.
5% of 1.2 billion + 60 million
5% of 335 million = 16.75 million
Roughly 3.5x's as many.
Please read in your best Indian Accent for authenticity.
"There are 1.2 billion people in India. You only see in America the smarter ones that left. The average Bhartiy has an IQ of 78 but, by numbers, there are over 3x as many people in India with a 125+ IQ than are in America."
125+ is in the 95th percentile.
5% of 1.2 billion + 60 million
5% of 335 million = 16.75 million
Roughly 3.5x's as many.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 12:45 pm to Meauxjeaux
He's just trying to be PC. Anyone that's spent any amount of time in the field knows full well it's a true statement.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 12:55 pm to Meauxjeaux
In my experience, Indians (Dot) are very solid in one very specific area of expertise in the software engineering field. While there are Indian (Dot) individuals as Program and Product Managers, those roles are predominantly fulfilled by Caucasian workers with less technical degrees or certifications.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 1:12 pm to Meauxjeaux
It has everything to do with educational system and very little to do with race.
I suffered through classes at an Asian school - where rote memorization and never questioning the professor were keys to survival.
I suffered through classes at an Asian school - where rote memorization and never questioning the professor were keys to survival.
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