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Started By
Message
re: Ranked Choice voting...
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:16 pm to Jax-Tiger
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:16 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
If we had ranked choice voting in 1992, we very well may have never had a President Clinton...
I agree.
RCV can cut both ways.
I don't hate the concept but it would have to be done with computers.
I want a human based system.
0
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:16 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
That's just another way of saying, it favors the status quo.
Naw. The current status quo is extremism
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:16 pm to Jax-Tiger
I think RCV is actually worse than what we have now.
As uninformed as voters are today, imagine having to rank candidates that you wouldn't normally care about. Not only does an informed voter consider his or her own preferred candidate and potentially that of their opponent, but now they have to look into the views and positions of all others on the ballot in order to make an informed choice. Good luck getting informed votes from that when so many are too lazy to even look into anything beyond the R or D next to someone's name.
And what happens if you decide to only rank one or two candidates? Well in the end, your ballot can be completely thrown out if who you voted for didn't make the cut for the final count. You can have ballot exhaustion (where people don't vote for every possible candidate), and that could result in the winner not even having a majority support of the voters. What RCV can do is result in winners of elections that don't actually have any real support.
No thanks.
As uninformed as voters are today, imagine having to rank candidates that you wouldn't normally care about. Not only does an informed voter consider his or her own preferred candidate and potentially that of their opponent, but now they have to look into the views and positions of all others on the ballot in order to make an informed choice. Good luck getting informed votes from that when so many are too lazy to even look into anything beyond the R or D next to someone's name.
And what happens if you decide to only rank one or two candidates? Well in the end, your ballot can be completely thrown out if who you voted for didn't make the cut for the final count. You can have ballot exhaustion (where people don't vote for every possible candidate), and that could result in the winner not even having a majority support of the voters. What RCV can do is result in winners of elections that don't actually have any real support.
No thanks.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The current status quo is extremism
That's what I'm saying. You're just entrenching it more with this.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:19 pm to FooManChoo
Ranked-choice voting adopted in Democrat states like California, Colorado, Massachusetts, and New York. Not used in Southern states and specifically barred in Florida (SB524, signed into law in 2022, barred the use of ranked-choice voting in any election). Buyer beware.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:20 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
That's what I'm saying. You're just entrenching it more with this.
Alaska did literally the exact opposite.
What other examples am I missing?
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:36 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
For instance - IF you run in the GOP primary and lose - then you SHALL NOT run as something else in the General Election.
Ranked choice is actually better in this scenario (assuming people use it correctly) because the candidate that is just there to siphon votes will be eliminated in an early round and the lower ranked choices on those ballots will be used in subsequent rounds.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:41 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
What is the problem with this?
It's not a representative Government and the concept of 1 person, 1 vote....it's 1 person, a part of a vote
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:44 pm to Snipe
quote:
Whatever they are saying about it it will do exactly the opposite.
no better than the sheep.
take responsibility and determine the benefits and issues.
sheep are childish.
Mr opposite is adolescent.
adults consider all the angles.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:46 pm to Jax-Tiger
I see what you did there. Clinton was not ever popular and needed 3rd party candidates so you use him as the example.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:47 pm to efrad
quote:
In all of these threads, nobody on this board seems to be able to articulate what's wrong with Ranked Choice Voting other than their preferred candidates have lost in some Ranked Choice Voting election.
Lisa Murkowski has broken a lot of people on here in this regard. Even though she won the most votes in the first round votes as well.
Peltola also didn’t win because of ranked choice voting. She won because Begich’s supporters didn’t vote for Palin. That reality would have existed in a traditional election format as well.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:48 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
For instance - IF you run in the GOP primary and lose - then you SHALL NOT run as something else in the General Election.
Does any state with RCV still use partisan primaries?
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:50 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
As uninformed as voters are today, imagine having to rank candidates that you wouldn't normally care about.
You don’t have to. Leave it blank if you’re too dumb to inform yourself before showing up.
quote:
And what happens if you decide to only rank one or two candidates?
Common sense. Your vote isnt redistributed to a second choice if you don’t list one.
quote:
You can have ballot exhaustion (where people don't vote for every possible candidate), and that could result in the winner not even having a majority support of the voters.
You mean just like traditional runoffs where a significant portion of voters don’t show back up?
RCV is just an instant runoff
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:55 pm to Wtodd
quote:
It's not a representative Government and the concept of 1 person, 1 vote....it's 1 person, a part of a vote
What? That makes zero sense.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:58 pm to Indefatigable
It's not a winner take all, 1 person, 1 vote......you get to vote for more than one person
Posted on 12/13/22 at 2:59 pm to Wtodd
quote:
It's not a winner take all
Yes it is. Or are you actually advocating for plurality elections while whining about representative government?
quote:
you get to vote for more than one person
False. At no point in any part of the RCV process does any person vote for more than one candidate.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 12/13/22 at 3:06 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
A ranked-choice voting system (RCV) is an electoral system in which voters rank candidates by preference on their ballots. If a candidate wins a majority of first-preference votes, he or she is declared the winner. If no candidate wins a majority of first-preference votes, the candidate with the fewest first-preference votes is eliminated. First-preference votes cast for the failed candidate are eliminated, lifting the next-preference choices indicated on those ballots. A new tally is conducted to determine whether any candidate has won a majority of the adjusted votes. The process is repeated until a candidate wins an outright majority
This is ranked choice above......nowhere in this explanation is there 1 election unless "a candidate wins a majority of first-preference votes" the first time.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 3:08 pm to Wtodd
quote:
This is ranked choice above......nowhere in this explanation is there 1 election unless "a candidate wins a majority of first-preference votes" the first time.
Correct. Just like in many places, there is a runoff if no candidate wins a majority of the votes the first time. RCV simply skips the separate burden of having another Election Day by having the voters list their second, etc choices.
What is your point?
You support plurality elections? You think plurality elections result in “representative government”? Do you oppose all runoffs?
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 12/13/22 at 3:21 pm to Indefatigable
quote:And your vote gets thrown out if your #1 doesn't win right away.
You don’t have to. Leave it blank if you’re too dumb to inform yourself before showing up
quote:Exactly, and it's thrown out because of it.
Common sense. Your vote isnt redistributed to a second choice if you don’t list one.
quote:Except you did vote, and your vote doesn't ultimately count.
You mean just like traditional runoffs where a significant portion of voters don’t show back up?
quote:It's not just an instant runoff. In a run off, there is still typically advertisements. There may be debates. There may be additional lobbying for votes. You don't get that when your vote is discarded because he or she didn't get enough of the total votes. Also, if there is a run off, that means that you've already had the opportunity to vote for your candidate and have your vote count already.
RCV is just an instant runoff
In addition, if you do participate in the ranking, your vote may go to someone you actually don't like and don't want to represent you. You vote for your #1 with the hopes that he or she wins, and fill in the rest of the ballot without much of a care, but if your #1 is eliminated early, your vote is now cast for someone you may not actually want to win (there may be a huge preference gap between #1 and #2, or #2 and #3, and so on). So, your choice is to have your vote thrown out, or have it go to someone you don't actually want.
Like I said: this system can end up with candidates getting elected who have hardly any support from the electorate. Is that how we want a representative republic to work?
Posted on 12/13/22 at 3:24 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
What is the problem with this?
Because it's rank. The winner in a typical vote would possibly/probably lose.
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