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re: No matter what direction we point a telescope, we always look toward the Big Bang - why?

Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:09 am to
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
19035 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:09 am to
quote:

From our perspective inside the bubble/balloon, we see the outer "skin" any direction we look.


But don’t you mean the point of origin? If the outer skin is expanding, how do we see it?
Posted by gumbo2176
Member since May 2018
16179 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:13 am to
quote:

What if its true that the early Church Fathers were correct that the earth is the center of the universe.



I don't profess to be anywhere close to being an astrophysicist, but it occurs to me that if the Earth were the center of the universe, then EVERYTHING would revolve around it, and that is not the case.
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3252 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:15 am to
quote:

he current cosmological model and evolutionary theory are in direct opposition to Christianity. If they're true, the Bible is nonsense.


Clearly you do not understand either the "current cosmological model", "evolutionary theory" or "Christianity"..
Posted by EarlyCuyler3
Appalachia
Member since Nov 2017
27290 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:16 am to
quote:

But what's outside the balloon????


A tortoise.
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:19 am to
quote:

You are 3 miles or more from land.

In all directions. If I had previously known the lake to be 6.2 miles wide, then I must be close to the center or the lake is much bigger than I believed.
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:19 am
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
15058 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:19 am to
quote:

But don’t you mean the point of origin?
That's the most difficult thing about inflation to wrap your head around.

The whole universe IS the point of origin. It is not an explosion from a point out, it is that point getting bigger.

You are an ant on top of a silver dollar. It inflates like the big bang... 100k years later you are a dog on a football field. 2 million years later you are an obese man in Catahoula Parish.

From our point of view we are INSIDE the point of origin.
quote:

If the outer skin is expanding, how do we see it?
We don't because, the best we know, it is expanding at the speed of light. And light is the only tool we have to "see". IF we could say, possibly, dark energy then we might be looking at any possible number such as 50 billion years. But because light is our only tool, we are limited to "seeing" it only and it takes time to reach us.

It is possible inflation exceeded the speed of light because light has a fixed/constant speed IN space. But space itself, inflation-big bang, isn't necessarily beholden to that speed limit. So space-time may be much further than light because it is 'expanding' faster than light can travel. Which is just another reason we will never know where the edge is as long as we are limited to using light (as the fastest and constant metric) as our only tool to define that space.

It is possible that is what 'dark energy' is. It is the energy created when space itself left a gap between itself and and all other forms of energy (which according to special relativity is related to matter). It's possible that space 'pulled a vacuum' on light and dark energy popped into existence to fill that gap. And once in existence it stayed forever.
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:31 am
Posted by Wiener
Member since Apr 2019
43 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:21 am to
quote:

And yet it is atheists who most often attempt to use science to disprove the existence of God.

That's sort of by definition. You would be unlikely to find a theist trying to disprove god's existence by any method. Does this mean they're religious zealots as well by trying to twist the scientific method into something it can't do? You bet.

I wouldn't put all scientists into that boat, though. It's easy to lump them all together and bash science with a strawman argument, but...
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:24 am
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:21 am to
quote:


The whole universe IS the point of origin.

I am not trying to be insulting, but this a nonsense attempt by scientists to square the circle because the facts aren't matching their assumptions.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28896 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:21 am to
quote:

But if the universe is expanding and we’re moving “forward,” shouldn’t there be a direction where we’d say, “that’s the direction we’re moving”?
There is no "forward". Motion and direction is relative.

So while gravity pulls nearby objects together, even whole neighboring galaxies, on the whole everything in space is moving away from everything else. And the further away something is, the faster it appears to be moving away. The conclusion is that space itself is expanding. So no matter where in the universe you measure from, or which direction you look, it appears that you are at the center of this expansion and that you aren't moving in any particular direction.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28896 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:23 am to
quote:

quote:

You are 3 miles or more from land.

In all directions. If I had previously known the lake to be 6.2 miles wide, then I must be close to the center or the lake is much bigger than I believed.
We've never "known" how big the universe actually is. What we've "known" is the size of the observable universe. That is, as far as we can see. We've never seen the banks of our lake.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
118966 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:23 am to
quote:

attempt by scientists to square the circle because the facts aren't matching their assumptions.


Show your work. How is the science not matching their assumptions?

SPECIFICALLY.
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:26 am to
quote:

What we've "known" is the size of the observable universe. That is, as far as we can see. We've never seen the banks of our lake.

13.8 billion years was the calculated age of the universe based on our understanding of physics. If you insist on squabbling about semantics, it is still outside the observable universe. Did you want to address or acknowledge my point?
Posted by flyingtexastiger
Southlake, TX
Member since Oct 2005
1674 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:31 am to
[quote]quote: You are 3 miles or more from land.

In all directions. If I had previously known the lake to be 6.2 miles wide, then I must be close to the center or the lake is much bigger than I believed.[/quote

Does this guy have a learning disability?
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28896 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Do we know in which direction we are heading? Can we know and look back at the spot of the proposed singularity?
No. Every location appears to be the spot of the singularity.
quote:

Is the light emitted from stars that are farther down the path we are headed different in some manner from the light emitted from stars that trail us in our path?
We are not headed in any direction, everything is headed away from us. And the further away things are, the faster they are moving away from us. We know this because the light emitted from galaxies that are farther away, in all directions, is more red-shifted than the light from closer galaxies.
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:34 am to
quote:

SPECIFICALLY

I've already explained my challenge. Specifically. The model that has been used for years is now being challenged and the general attitude seems to be "Ah hah! Just as we predicted!" No. That's not accurate. Be honest. I predict within 5 years the estimated age of the universe will be drastically extended.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
118966 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:35 am to
quote:

I've already explained my challenge. Specifically. The model that has been used for years is now being challenged


Do it again. I don't see anything specific with any evidence.

quote:

I predict within 5 years the estimated age of the universe will be drastically extended.


That would be great. That's how Science works, it would mean that our understanding expanded.
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:36 am
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:35 am to
quote:


Does this guy have a learning disability?

Mostly I have a bs alarm and it's going off. You guys are regurgitating a bunch of non sequiturs and avoiding the awkward questions that challenge your previous assumptions
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
118966 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:36 am to
quote:

d avoiding the awkward questions that challenge your previous assumptions


I haven't seen a single one of these that is based in any actual science.
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:37 am to
quote:


Do it again. I don't see anything specific with any evidence.

We can't see the edge of the universe. We should be able to with a telescope going 13 billion light years. Why not? It's pretty simple.
Posted by Jake88
Member since Apr 2005
70878 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:39 am to
quote:

We are not headed in any direction, everything is headed away from us
Can you expand on this a bit more? We aren't stationary, right?
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