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re: No matter what direction we point a telescope, we always look toward the Big Bang - why?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:53 am to squid_hunt
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:53 am to squid_hunt
That's because of expansion. It still is because wherever we look the in the observable universe we are always looking back in time to the beginning. His question has nothing to do with spacial distances which we are still trying to understand. There are a lots of questions surround dark energy and how it has influenced the mapable universe. The fact is though we will always be back. We have to look back to formulate models to make predictions on where to look tomorrow. We take past data, utilize the laws of physics, and make predictions. Some of which are theories yet to be observable. GR predicted black holes long before we could ever find them. Now we think we have found one at every major galaxy and even some stray ones flying through open space. There is also the idea of white holes too which is the opposite of a black hole.
1
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:54 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
But what's outside the balloon????
Exactly. Expanding into what?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:54 am to Dawgfanman
quote:
That sounds an awful lot like some “we don’t know but want to claim we do” bullshite
No true scientist claims to know anything for which there isn’t any observable evidence. Knowing, in that sense, is in the realm of philosophy and religion.
Rather, science allows for theories that go as far as the evidence takes them. That certainly isn’t the same as knowing.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:54 am to squid_hunt
quote:
It's not. You're lying. But if you want to siderail this into a science vs the Bible debate go for it. You're being a douche. I have approached the topic under the assumptions provided and responded rationally. Maybe take your hobby horse elsewhere.
You are the one that brought up the Bible, genius.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:55 am to FutureMikeVIII
quote:
Lol, no. That’s a strawman advanced by biblical literalists who feel attacked by advancing knowledge. Science literally doesn’t give a shite about god, since by definition supernatural shite is not testable.
And yet it is atheists who most often attempt to use science to disprove the existence of God.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:56 am to StringedInstruments
Lol @ big bangers
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:56 am to squid_hunt
quote:Three things...
It's not back in time. It's across distances. It just takes a long time for the light to get here. His question is if the earth is not the center of the universe, why is there space 13 billion light years in all directions in a 13.8 billion year old universe
1. In terms of space-time distance IS time because both are defined by light and it's constant speed. We see things how they were. When you look at the sun you are seeing how it was 8 minutes ago.
2. We don't know if there is an edge to the universe and if there is one where it is. If we assume there is an edge, we don't know where it is because of the passage of time (and distance) by which that light traveled. So if you wait a million years, you add a million years of light but at the same time space is inflating at the speed of light (maybe more). So you will never ever see the edge because the edge is moving away from you at the same rate the light is coming back to you. The only way we've gotten to 13.8 billion years is through our own technology being able to see light at various wavelengths. We don't know if there's more beyond that because either the light hasn't made it to us yet, or we don't have the capability to see that wavelength.
3. Since we don't know where the edge is, we don't know if we are in the middle, we only know we can see a fixed radius out. If you're standing somewhere in a completely dark 20,000 sqft warehouse and your flashlight sucks and only illuminates 10 feet in radius, do you know if you are in the middle or not? No, only if you find a wall do you know and we can't find the wall (the edge of the universe).
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:57 am to Abstract Queso Dip
quote:
His question has nothing to do with spacial distances which we are still trying to understand.
Hia question was if we assume the earth is not the center of the universe, why can't we see the edge of a 13.8 billion year old universe with a telescope that can see 13 billion years into the past.
You are basically speaking in platitudes. Acknowledge the validity of the question and address it. It is a profound question on the nature of the universe.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:58 am to squid_hunt
quote:
A 13 billion year old universe with evolution negates original sin and Christ's redemption. It makes the Bible a lie.
Not necessarily. It could just be a very simplistic interpretation of the events that led to the creation of Earth.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:59 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
But if the universe is expanding and we’re moving “forward,” shouldn’t there be a direction where we’d say, “that’s the direction we’re moving”?
this is because when everything is "expanding", then no matter what your point of origin is, everything you look at is moving away from you...
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:03 am
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:00 am to I20goon
quote:
Since we don't know where the edge is, we don't know if we are in the middle, we only know we can see a fixed radius out.
If I have a telescope that can see 3 miles and I can't see the edge of the lake I am sitting in, what is my assumption about the lake and my position?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:00 am to squid_hunt
quote:
quote:
Science is literally doesn’t give a shite about god, since by definition supernatural shite is not testable.
It's not. You're lying. But if you want to siderail this into a science vs the Bible debate go for it. You're being a douche. I have approached the topic under the assumptions provided and responded rationally. Maybe take your hobby horse elsewhere.
You're conflating science with the opinions of some scientists.
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:02 am
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:02 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Not necessarily. It could just be a very simplistic interpretation of the events that led to the creation of Earth.
Yes, necessarily. Death and suffering came because of sin from man. Evolution is not possible without death. Christ died to redeem us from our sins. The current cosmological model and evolutionary theory are in direct opposition to Christianity. If they're true, the Bible is nonsense.
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:04 am
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:05 am to squid_hunt
quote:The only knowable fact is that you are at least 3 miles from a bank. You don't know which bank by the way, because you have no frame of reference. Maybe exactly 3 miles, maybe more; but at least 3 miles from a bank.
If I have a telescope that can see 3 miles and I can't see the edge of the lake I am sitting in, what is my assumption about the lake and my position?
From there you can assume all kinds of things. But that is the only logical fact you can deduce. You are 3 miles or more from land.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:06 am to Dawgfanman
quote:
And yet it is atheists who most often attempt to use science to disprove the existence of God.
This is something that you guys say because you feel attacked.
Science doesn't concern itself with religious topics. The vast majority of, let's say geneticists, don't think about how it is going to impact Buddhism when they explore the human genome.
It just is. They follow the evidence and postulate based on it. That's it.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:07 am to Dawgfanman
quote:
And yet it is atheists who most often attempt to use science to disprove the existence of God.
I don’t necessarily buy that, but atheists can be idiots, too.
On this site, Christians are far more likely to mischaracterize some scientific idea as “trying to disprove god” which is impossible, logically.
If a 13 billion year old universe disproves your version of god in your eyes (squid’s words paraphrased), I really don’t know what to tell you. That’s the current state of the evidence.
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:08 am to squid_hunt
quote:
The current cosmological model and evolutionary theory are in direct opposition to Christianity.
I don't agree at all. There is such thing as Theistic Evolution. Most Christians do not believe in the LITERAL word of the Bible, Adam and Eve and all of that. Only a small minority of vocal simpletons believe such things.
And even if it is in "direct opposition"... so what?
The evidence says what it says. They aren't doing it to "attack Christianity", although I'm sure that's what you believe. They are doing it because...its true?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:08 am to I20goon
quote:
We don't know if there is an edge to the universe and if there is one where it is.
Do we know we are not at the edge? Why wouldn’t we be? Did things blow past us in the bang?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:09 am to squid_hunt
quote:
If I have a telescope that can see 3 miles and I can't see the edge of the lake I am sitting in, what is my assumption about the lake and my position?
Do you believe the Earth is "The Center of the Universe", yes or no?
Posted on 7/28/22 at 9:09 am to squid_hunt
quote:
Yes, necessarily. Death and suffering came because of sin from man. Evolution is not possible without death. Christ died to redeem us from our sins.
You need to think more in Christ's favorite figure of speech, the metaphor. Is Genesis talking about physical death or spiritual death?
Just as we are taught about children, true sin is impossible without conscience. So IF evolution is true, at what point did humans gain self awareness? And if that's is the case, isn't sin impossible before that? Can animals sin?
Again, depending on how your read and Interpret things, they aren't as black and white as you're trying to make them.
This post was edited on 7/28/22 at 9:18 am
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