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re: Twitter/Musk deal hanging on by a thread. Twitter fraud on bot #s may sink the deal.

Posted on 5/17/22 at 12:38 pm to
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
60884 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

How many companies went woke or apologized due to pressure from twitter trends? When in reality it wasn’t even real consumers, just algorithms created by a handful of people pushing a radical agenda

The pendulum is already swinging back our way:

Top PR Firm Advises Woke Corporations to Remain Silent re: Roe v. Wade
Posted by Quidam65
Q Continuum
Member since Jun 2010
19315 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 12:52 pm to
Twitter 10-Q

See page 5. This is their publicly-disclosed "estimate" of "false or spam accounts" (bots etc.)

You're allowed to publish estimates and give the appropriate warnings that estimates may not represent actuals, but you can't simply throw out a WAG or SWAG, there has to be some reasonable basis.
This post was edited on 5/17/22 at 12:53 pm
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
34719 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

We regularly review and may adjust our processes for calculating our internal metrics to improve their accuracy.


It seems like that’s code for:

“We tweak the numbers to fit the narrative of the leftist goose-steppers because the people that run twitter are leftist goose-steppers.”

I can’t imagine being someone like you, actually defending Twitter.

This is yet another example where you have exposed yourself as a DNC / CCP employee...or dumb as frick.

Posted by BurntOrangeMan
Dallas TX
Member since May 2021
5628 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

Instead of concern about deception, overvalued ads, etc... I get...



You can't negotiate with insanity, they are insane.
Posted by Quidam65
Q Continuum
Member since Jun 2010
19315 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 12:56 pm to
quote:

Next big question should be who is twitters external auditor..


Twitter 10-K

See Exhibit 23.1 (page 150 of the PDF). It's PriceWaterhouseCoopers.
Posted by BurntOrangeMan
Dallas TX
Member since May 2021
5628 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

Ok? That's what they want. They got strong armed into agreeing to sell to Elon in the first place. If they don't give him what he wants and tank they deal, they get to keep their narrative toy.



They have to deal with investors, advertisers & the SEC for fraud. Trust me this isn’t in their favor by any means.
Posted by the LSUSaint
Member since Nov 2009
15444 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 1:26 pm to
It's brilliant. He steals it for cheap, or their stock collapses because of him pulling offer and all the bloated fake accounts.

I really don't understand why this isn't fraud. Twitter uses those #s to falsely inflate advertising fees and also stock price.

Either way, Twitter as we know it is fricked if they don't sell.

I love Musk
Posted by laxtonto
Member since Mar 2011
1924 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 1:52 pm to
The funny part is in many ways this is exactly what was going on during the botcom bum and inevitable crash. Show some investors some pumped up favorable engagement numbers and extrapolate a perpetual growth mode from it, and sell and watch it pop.

Twitter was just going this on a much grander scale with a product that many people were ok with the fake numbers because they could use it to sway and inflate their own engagement numbers.

In essence this is a bit of a weird pyramid scheme that is there to amplify one side of a conversation and so those on that one side willing pay for the ads knowing that they can then use the fake engagement numbers to justify their views and so can then use those twitter engagement numbers to push the idea on other platforms.

It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s popular and trending on Twitter so therefore the other bandwagon influencers feel they also need to join on and now the fake engagement is building real push.

People tend to follow or gravitate to a consensus, even one that was essentially fake. That is why propaganda works, that is why mass marketing works…
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54753 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 1:52 pm to
He can't actually walk the deal for that reason or really any reason, there are no outs in the contract. He'd have to pay a $1B breakup fee. That being said he's unlikely to honor the contract and simply litigate it to death or use that threat to negotiate a lower price or lower breakup fee since a delay and litigation, regardless of outcome, would be more damaging to Twitter.
Posted by billjamin
Houston
Member since Jun 2019
12709 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

He can't actually walk the deal for that reason or really any reason, there are no outs in the contract. He'd have to pay a $1B breakup fee. That being said he's unlikely to honor the contract and simply litigate it to death or use that threat to negotiate a lower price or lower breakup fee since a delay and litigation, regardless of outcome, would be more damaging to Twitter.

He can argue that the bot % amount to a material adverse misstatement from SEC filings, but those same filings have indicated and sufficiently hedged Twitters position that it may be significantly higher. It'll be a tough one to fight in Delaware.

ETA: one big thing to point out here is whether or not Twitter would negotiate down the price or bail out money. I think that depends on how much they want to come out in litigation. This could turn into a bigger issue really quick and the difference between blissful ignorance and false public filings is the difference between a fine and jailtime.
This post was edited on 5/17/22 at 2:54 pm
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54753 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

He can argue that the bot % amount to a material adverse


Very high threshold.
quote:

one big thing to point out here is whether or not Twitter would negotiate down the price or bail out money. I think that depends on how much they want to come out in litigation. This could turn into a bigger issue really quick and the difference between blissful ignorance and false public filings is the difference between a fine and jailtime.


Knowing how loose these rules are and how unlikely jail would be, I don't think that is the consideration. It's share value destruction caused by delaying and not closing the deal...that's Musk's leverage outside the contract - he's basically saying frick the contract and go ahead and sue to enforce...I have a lot $ to litigate and your share price will go in the shitter...lower the price.
Posted by Decatur
Member since Mar 2007
28719 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 3:34 pm to
Elon Musk Does Not Care About Spam Bots

quote:

I think it is important to be clear here that Musk is lying. The spam bots are not why he is backing away from the deal, as you can tell from the fact that the spam bots are why he did the deal. He has produced no evidence at all that Twitter’s estimates are wrong, and certainly not that they are materially wrong or made in bad faith. (Musk can only get out of the deal if Twitter's filings are wrong in a way that would cause a “material adverse effect” on Twitter, which is vanishingly unlikely.) His own supposed methodology for counting spam bots is laughable. Yesterday Twitter’s chief executive officer, Parag Agrawal, tweeted a thread explaining in general terms how Twitter estimates that fake accounts represent fewer than 5% of its count of active users, and how this analysis can’t be easily replicated by outsiders (because they don’t know which accounts are real, and also because they don’t know which accounts Twitter counts as daily active users). It seems clear that Agrawal’s thoughtful answer is basically correct. Musk responded with a poop emoji.

More important, nothing has changed about the bot problem since Musk signed the merger agreement. Twitter has published the same qualified estimate — that fewer than 5% of monetizable accounts are fake — for the last eight years. Musk knew those estimates, and declined to do any nonpublic due diligence before signing the merger agreement. He knew about the spam bot problem before signing the merger agreement, as we know because he talked about it constantly, including while announcing the merger agreement. If he didn’t want to buy Twitter because there are spam bots, he should not have signed a contract to buy Twitter. No new information has come to light about spam bots in the last three weeks.

What has happened in the last three weeks? Well, the prices of tech stocks have gone down, making the $54.20 price that Musk agreed to look a bit rich. (Snap Inc., a social-media competitor to Twitter, is down more than 30% since Musk made his offer on April 13.) And the price of Tesla Inc. stock, which he is relying on to finance part of the purchase price, has also gone down, making him poorer and making the $54.20 price look even more expensive. (Tesla is down almost 30% since he made his offer.) So he is angling to reprice the deal for straightforward market reasons. But that is very clearly not allowed by the merger agreement that he signed: Public-company merger agreements allocate broad market risk to the buyer, and he can’t get out just because stocks went down.

So he is pretending that he wants to reprice the deal for other reasons. He is not pretending very hard — the poop emoji is not going to hold up in court! — but he’s doing enough to confuse the public and give his fans a pretext to believe that he is really the victim here.


quote:

What can Twitter do about it? Certainly they can walk Musk through their methodology and give him evidence that spam accounts represent fewer than 5% of monetizable daily active users, but what good will that do? He doesn’t care, he’s lying about this, and no evidence that they can give him will have any effect. Twitter could get all 229 million of its monetizable daily active users in a room and have them say “hello Elon, we are real,” and that would not convince him, because he does not want to be convinced. He wants to pay a lower price.

Or Twitter can do what he actually wants, which is renegotiate the deal at a lower price. But what good will that do? What does Twitter get from signing a new merger agreement with him at, say, $42 per share? 2 He has not lived up to any of his agreements with Twitter — the standstill, the non-disparagement clause of the merger agreement, apparently a nondisclosure agreement, the merger agreement itself — and he’s not going to live up to a repriced merger agreement unless he feels like it. An agreement with Elon Musk is worthless, as Twitter has learned over and over again.

Or Twitter can try to hold him to the terms of his current deal, but that is also risky. The way the merger agreement works is that Musk’s damages are capped at a $1 billion reverse termination fee: If he walks away and Twitter sues for damages, it can’t get more than $1 billion, or about $1.30 per share, which is nowhere close to enough to compensate for losing this deal.

The agreement does, however, allow Twitter to sue for “specific performance,” meaning that it can go to a Delaware court and ask a judge to order Musk to close the deal (and fund his $27.5 billion equity commitment). But this is tough and there is no guarantee it will work. Specific performance is only possible if Musk’s debt financing is available, which seems likely but not certain, and if a judge is willing to order it. On the one hand, Musk’s lawlessness and bad faith will probably annoy a judge and make her more likely to specifically enforce the merger agreement. On the other hand, Musk’s lawlessness and bad faith might worry a Delaware judge and make her less likely to specifically enforce the merger agreement. It is bad, for the rule of law generally and for confidence in Delaware corporate law in particular, if Musk blatantly ignores a merger agreement and a judge lets him get away with it. But it’s even worse if a court orders him to close and he ignores the order. Musk has a history of ignoring court orders and getting away with it.
Posted by TigerFan55555
Tomball, TX
Member since Nov 2008
9601 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

Twitter very well may be sued into bankruptcy after it is all said and done. Bunch of crooks…selling ads based on fake numbers.


yep, many don't see the magnitude of this... Their leadership could go to prison... anyone that has bought ads from them could sue..
Posted by LSUSkip
Central, LA
Member since Jul 2012
17666 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

He has to pay $1 billion if he backs out


my guess is that Twitter would want to waive that and move on, very quickly. If they plan to recoup that billion, it most certainly would be through a court where they would only do themselves more harm, especially without a gag order.

quote:

making him poorer


Whomever wrote this is an idiot. If you have billions and you lose a few, you do not get poorer. You don't even use the word or any variations of poor for someone that has billions. Poor equates to people that have tens of dollars.
This post was edited on 5/17/22 at 4:22 pm
Posted by billjamin
Houston
Member since Jun 2019
12709 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 4:18 pm to
quote:

it most certainly would be through a court where they would only do themselves more harm, especially without a gag order.

Actually, the more I think about it there’s almost certainly an arbitration clause. Maybe someone who’s seen the contract can weigh in.
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54753 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

yep, many don't see the magnitude of this... Their leadership could go to prison... anyone that has bought ads from them could sue..



They're not going to go to prison and they won't be sued.
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54753 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 4:48 pm to
quote:

my guess is that Twitter would want to waive that and move on, very quickly. If they plan to recoup that billion, it most certainly would be through a court where they would only do themselves more harm, especially without a gag order.


Courts, where internet conspiracy theories go to die.

It's share price, nothing more.
Posted by Decatur
Member since Mar 2007
28719 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 4:57 pm to
quote:

Actually, the more I think about it there’s almost certainly an arbitration clause.


I don’t think it has one but I’ve only done a keyword search. Parties consented to jurisdiction of Delaware Court of Chancery.
Posted by My Name
'Burg
Member since Jun 2017
56 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 5:03 pm to
Either he knows that and just being a obtuse, or he doesn't and is an idiot.

I told you guys long ago it's coming. It's all gonna come out. Don't ask me how I know, can't tell you, been gone awhile, (Working) but what's coming is GLORIOUS!
Posted by lz2112
Largo, Fl
Member since Oct 2019
1172 posts
Posted on 5/17/22 at 5:04 pm to
quote:

I wonder if Facebook’s numbers are fake too?


I hope that is a rhetorical question.

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