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Lord Russell on Marx
Posted on 4/15/22 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 4/15/22 at 8:48 pm
Bertrand Russell was one of the premier philosophers of the 20th century. Born in England in 1872, he studied at Cambridge, and later went on to be a major figure in various topics in philosophy. Most of his published work was on very technical subjects such as the foundation of mathematics (i.e. how do we know math is true), but he also had an interest in social and political philosophy.
During World War I Russell was a pacifist and wanted Britain to stay out of the war. During this time he was harassed by Police a lot for his protesting. One day he gave a public speech criticizing Britain for asking America to come into the war - he wanted America to stay out. For this speech he was given a 6 month prison sentence and actually served all of it.
Russell was sent by the British government to Soviet Russia in the 20's where he met Lenin himself and had an hour long conversation with him. He left disappointed believing Lenin to have an "impish cruelty." Russell heard gunshots every night and believed the Soviets were carrying out executions (he was probably right).
Russell was often a champion for various progressive causes and was by no means some right-wing fascist. He was an avowed atheist and a strong supporter of Darwin. On free speech Russell once said:
Yep.
He analyzed Marx's "philosophy" and found a number of issues. (He once said "I don't know if I would dignify Marx with the title of philosopher").
On Communism in Russia:
Nothing has changed since that time. It's still the same old philosophy being pushed now.
During World War I Russell was a pacifist and wanted Britain to stay out of the war. During this time he was harassed by Police a lot for his protesting. One day he gave a public speech criticizing Britain for asking America to come into the war - he wanted America to stay out. For this speech he was given a 6 month prison sentence and actually served all of it.
Russell was sent by the British government to Soviet Russia in the 20's where he met Lenin himself and had an hour long conversation with him. He left disappointed believing Lenin to have an "impish cruelty." Russell heard gunshots every night and believed the Soviets were carrying out executions (he was probably right).
Russell was often a champion for various progressive causes and was by no means some right-wing fascist. He was an avowed atheist and a strong supporter of Darwin. On free speech Russell once said:
quote:
When the State intervenes to ensure the indoctrination of some doctrine, it does so because there is no conclusive evidence in favour of that doctrine.
Yep.
He analyzed Marx's "philosophy" and found a number of issues. (He once said "I don't know if I would dignify Marx with the title of philosopher").
quote:
Marx’s doctrine that all historical events have been motivated by class conflicts is a rash and untrue extension to world history of certain features prominent in England and France a hundred years ago. His belief that there is a cosmic force called Dialectical Materialism which governs human history independently of human volitions, is mere mythology. His theoretical errors, however, would not have mattered so much but for the fact that, like Tertullian and Carlyle, his chief desire was to see his enemies punished, and he cared little what happened to his friends in the process.
On Communism in Russia:
quote:
Marx’s doctrine was bad enough, but the developments which it underwent under Lenin and Stalin made it much worse. Marx had taught that there would be a revolutionary transitional period following the victory of the proletariat in a civil war and that during this period the proletariat, in accordance with the usual practice after a civil war, would deprive its vanquished enemies of political power. This period was to be that of the dictatorship of the proletariat. It should not be forgotten that in Marx’s prophetic vision the victory of the proletariat was to come after it had grown to be the vast majority of the population. The dictatorship of the proletariat therefore as conceived by Marx was not essentially anti-democratic.
In the Russia of 1917, however, the proletariat was a small percentage of the population, the great majority being peasants. It was decreed that the Bolshevik party was the class-conscious part of the proletariat, and that a small committee of its leaders was the class-conscious part of the Bolshevik party. The dictatorship of the proletariat thus came to be the dictatorship of a small committee, and ultimately of one man – Stalin.
Nothing has changed since that time. It's still the same old philosophy being pushed now.
Posted on 4/15/22 at 8:57 pm to AUstar
quote:
His theoretical errors, however, would not have mattered so much but for the fact that, like Tertullian and Carlyle, his chief desire was to see his enemies punished
This guy had leftism nailed down 100 years ago. 2022 leftism is the losers of society demanding punishment on those whom they think have it better than themselves.
Posted on 4/15/22 at 10:03 pm to lechateau
quote:
2022 leftism is the losers of society demanding punishment on those whom they think have it better than themselves.
That for sure for the loser Antifa and blue haired types. There are also those that already have theirs and want to keep the rest of us out of their caste. Politicians, actors et al.
Posted on 4/15/22 at 10:24 pm to AUstar
My fave Bertie quote is something I read many years ago but haven't been able to find since. It goes something like "Beware of self-protecting doctrines".
Meaning ideologies such as the dictatorship of the proletariat. Anyone who criticizes it is either a wealthy capitalist or, if they are working class, a traitor to the proletariat.
You see variations of that in many ideologies, such as critical race theory, etc.
Also the feminist doctrine of "false consciousness". False consciousness is possessed by women who value the traditional role of wife and mother in a nuclear family. To criticize the doctrine of false consciousness proves she is already a victim of false consciousness.
But my absolute favorite though is the idea thaat there is nothing wrong w/homosexuality, but if you dare criticize homosexuality you are really aa closeted homosexual. Thus there is nothing wrong with it, unless you criticize it, then it's all perverted and icky.
Brilliant.
Meaning ideologies such as the dictatorship of the proletariat. Anyone who criticizes it is either a wealthy capitalist or, if they are working class, a traitor to the proletariat.
You see variations of that in many ideologies, such as critical race theory, etc.
Also the feminist doctrine of "false consciousness". False consciousness is possessed by women who value the traditional role of wife and mother in a nuclear family. To criticize the doctrine of false consciousness proves she is already a victim of false consciousness.
But my absolute favorite though is the idea thaat there is nothing wrong w/homosexuality, but if you dare criticize homosexuality you are really aa closeted homosexual. Thus there is nothing wrong with it, unless you criticize it, then it's all perverted and icky.
Brilliant.
Posted on 4/15/22 at 11:38 pm to AUstar
quote:
Nothing has changed since that time. It's still the same old philosophy being pushed now.
Disagree. Marx and Engels spent most of their time talking about materialism, not culture. The neomarxists that came later really emphasized the need to destroy a society's existing culture so that something new could be built. That's the main thing going on today, not classical "workers of the world unite" labor oriented thinking.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 5:18 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
The neomarxists that came later really emphasized the need to destroy a society's existing culture so that something new could be built. That's the main thing going on today, not classical "workers of the world unite" labor oriented thinking.
Yep. This is the same group who, when society fails to follow the Marxist path to a classless, stateless communism, just blows it off by saying "that wasn't truly it."
Posted on 4/16/22 at 5:47 am to AUstar
quote:
When the State intervenes to ensure the indoctrination of some doctrine, it does so because there is no conclusive evidence in favour of that doctrine.
This is a nugget! This is why the state is intervening to brainwash children in schools. This is why the Florida law preventing it is on the mark.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 5:53 am to AUstar
quote:
to see his enemies punished, and he cared little what happened to his friends in the process.
Just like antifa and BLM.
They are all vengeance driven mobs, not builders of civilization.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 6:07 am to TrueTiger
This Forum is extraordinarily. It’s a true blessing to them that seek to know the Truth that will indeed “set us free”. Monumental time. Pray for mercy, vision and love.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 6:28 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
Marx and Engels spent most of their time talking about materialism, not culture. The neomarxists that came later really emphasized the need to destroy a society's existing culture so that something new could be built. That's the main thing going on today, not classical "workers of the world unite" labor oriented thinking.
Well, that’s what happens when someone tries to put into practice a hare-brained concept thought up by pinheads like Marx and Engels. It was the same with Plato’s Republic - a useful tool for studying human nature, but don’t try to implement that kind of stupidity.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 6:46 am to lechateau
quote:
This guy had leftism nailed down 100 years ago. 2022 leftism is the losers of society demanding punishment on those whom they think have it better than themselves.
Exactly.
While I haven't read The Gulag Archipelago, one of Jordan Peterson's takeaways from that book was that Marxists really didn't care about the poor and downtrodden members of their society, they just hated the wealthy/successful members of their society.
Progressives today hide their hatred behind the shield of faked compassion.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 6:55 am to AUstar
quote:IE any idea that must be forced on people is almost always a terrible idea
When the State intervenes to ensure the indoctrination of some doctrine, it does so because there is no conclusive evidence in favour of that doctrine.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 7:24 am to Kafka
quote:The same goes with 'white fragility.'
Also the feminist doctrine of "false consciousness". False consciousness is possessed by women who value the traditional role of wife and mother in a nuclear family. To criticize the doctrine of false consciousness proves she is already a victim of false consciousness.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 8:16 am to Bard
quote:
Yep. This is the same group who, when society fails to follow the Marxist path to a classless, stateless communism, just blows it off by saying "that wasn't truly it."
I read a book about socialism from 1901. It says something along the lines of “any time you criticize socialism, the normal retort is “that’s not the true socialism”.
That line has been in the playbook for 150 years.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 9:31 am to Gr8t8s
Marx and Engels if you read their books and papers believed in a Totalitarianism system of government.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:02 am to AUstar
quote:
In the Russia of 1917, however, the proletariat was a small percentage of the population, the great majority being peasants. It was decreed that the Bolshevik party was the class-conscious part of the proletariat, and that a small committee of its leaders was the class-conscious part of the Bolshevik party. The dictatorship of the proletariat thus came to be the dictatorship of a small committee, and ultimately of one man – Stalin.
I would say that the action of Kerensky giving the land to the peasants, briefly made them a part of the proletariat. So when Lenin took control, and subsequently appropriated the land back from the former peasants, it could be considered the "dictatorship of the proletariat". What Marx didn't predict was that the dictator would never willingly give up power to transition to the ultimate classless, stateless workers' utopia. Hence why the Soviet Union never actually was communist in the Marxist sense, but simply remained a socialist dictatorship.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:23 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
I would say that the action of Kerensky giving the land to the peasants, briefly made them a part of the proletariat. So when Lenin took control, and subsequently appropriated the land back from the former peasants, it could be considered the "dictatorship of the proletariat". What Marx didn't predict was that the dictator would never willingly give up power to transition to the ultimate classless, stateless workers' utopia. Hence why the Soviet Union never actually was communist in the Marxist sense, but simply remained a socialist dictatorship.
Best you go back and read Karl's book and Engels....
TIKhistory watch this historian on Youtube, he is doing a very good on the history of socialism, communist movement, Fascism and the Nazi's party.
TIK is destroying the progress movement with the real facts on these movements and how they all came out of the same idea.
Hitler and Mussolini were both Communists and belong to the party, Hitler was even elected to the Bayen parliament in 1919 when Kurt Eisner was the leader of that area.
The Communist manifesto children are Socialism, Fascism, the Nazi party, all the communist states still out there today and the old Soviet Union.
This post was edited on 4/16/22 at 10:24 am
Posted on 4/16/22 at 11:47 am to tigger1
quote:
TIKhistory watch this historian on Youtube
I'll check it out. But I'd much rather read that watch some lame video.
quote:
Hitler and Mussolini were both Communists and belong to the party
This is rather meaningless in the context that George Washington was a Loyalist who became a republican (note small "r") and ended up at war with the Loyalists. People can change/refine their political philosophies.
quote:
The Communist manifesto children are Socialism, Fascism, the Nazi party, all the communist states still out there today and the old Soviet Union.
This looks like an oversimplification. One could just as easily say that the children of Common Sense are republicanism, socialism, and communism.
Just because you aren't a monarchist or a republican doesn't necessarily make you a communist - or even a socialist. Socialism requires the total state ownership of the means of production which neither Hitler nor Mussolini had. Not to mention that sometimes forms of government just aren't readily pigeonholed - which is anathema to the American obsession with categorization.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 11:48 am to AUstar
quote:
his chief desire was to see his enemies punished,
Is really the bottom line with commies.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 12:02 pm to AUstar
The only Russell book that I’ve read was “Why I’m not a Christian”. I found his arguments childish.
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