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re: Why O is Not the man for the Job
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:27 am to UptownnMike
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:27 am to UptownnMike
Nobody would clean house. Chip Kelly might but that's it
0
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:28 am to slackster
quote:
And they were under head coaches from Ohio and West Virginia.
That's not the point. You move on from Coach O, you lose him. Frank Wilson is already gone. Does Corey Raymond go to? Julukke?
at some point the pipeline is going to run thin.
If Coach O is kept, it will have a lot to do with recruiting. You can bet that.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:28 am to ibleedprplngld
Coach O gets criticized for his record at Ole Miss, but how many of the top coaches you named have ever been a head coach in the SEC? I don't know CEO personally, and will not be making the decision, but several talking heads, including Jason Seahorn, said that if USC had a do over that CEO would be the coach. Does the administration want to feel the same in two years? We can't put Herman, Fleck, or Jimbo at Ole Miss instead of CEO in the past, but ask yourself how any of them might have done.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:29 am to ibleedprplngld
What if Coach O is elite?
He gets ragged on for his stint at Ole Miss. That was his first HC job and it happened to come about when the SEC was establishing itself as the premier conference in college football.
The man can flat out recruit. That's something you must be able to do in order to stay on top.
He doesn't need to be an X's and O's guy. That's what the position coaches are for. We just need him to manage the program by surrounding himself with the best assistants and players.
He gets ragged on for his stint at Ole Miss. That was his first HC job and it happened to come about when the SEC was establishing itself as the premier conference in college football.
The man can flat out recruit. That's something you must be able to do in order to stay on top.
He doesn't need to be an X's and O's guy. That's what the position coaches are for. We just need him to manage the program by surrounding himself with the best assistants and players.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:29 am to ibleedprplngld
I have mixed feelings if we should hire Coach O, he would not be a homerun hire for a program the size of LSU but on the other hand Les was also not a homerun hire and look what he did. The down fall of putting the interim tag on him if we do not give him the job we for sure will loss a great assistant coach. If you take Jimbo name out, coach O may be equal to the rest of them, and may have the upper hand if he can hold on to the assistant coaches we have. After the way LSU handle the LES situation last year, if we do have a Ace in our back pocket on a homerun hire, hopefully we play the card the right way at the right time.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:30 am to Bmath
quote:
He doesn't need to be an X's and O's guy. That's what the position coaches are for. We just need him to manage the program by surrounding himself with the best assistants and players.
so...Miles?
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:32 am to Salmon
I'll say this - if you ever wonder why LA is so backwards, particularly with respect to politics and government, this Orgeron saga is a perfect microcosm.
Incredibly limited results, but people are ready to sign him up because he's from LA and all the rah rah high energy stuff makes them feel good. They'd rather roll with a local boy than get some top flight coach.
My personal favorite is when they frame a new guy as "some hot up-and-comer," probably the same thing they said about computers and cell phones.
Incredibly limited results, but people are ready to sign him up because he's from LA and all the rah rah high energy stuff makes them feel good. They'd rather roll with a local boy than get some top flight coach.
My personal favorite is when they frame a new guy as "some hot up-and-comer," probably the same thing they said about computers and cell phones.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:33 am to ibleedprplngld
quote:
Do you honestly believe Coach O is a better coach than Herman or Jimbo or Fedora or Kelly or Fleck or (insert other big names floating around)?
IMO Herman is the best coach out there. But there is no guarantee that my opinion is correct or that he wants to come here. O might be a better option here than Jimbo, who has looked human after losing Winston. Fedora has finished a season ranked in the top 25 ONCE since becoming a head coach in 2008. He won ONE conference title at Southern Miss and has only won a division title at UNC since taking over in 2012. I'd rather hire Miles back than hire Kelly. (And that is really saying something) Fleck coaches at Western Michigan. No.
O has the team excited. He has the fanbase excited. He has recruits excited. He is not a perfect hire, but neither is anyone else out there with an actual interest in being the coach at LSU.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:34 am to Salmon
quote:
so...Miles?
Miles had an incredibly successful tenure at LSU.
His downfall was meddling in the offense.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:35 am to ibleedprplngld
He's had experience as HC at two power 5 schools... now 3. His first stop was subpar, but he assembled a lot of talent as a quality recruiter (nobody will doubt his recruiting ability). His second gig, like his current gig, was and is as an INTERIM HC. His time as interim coach has been about as successful as you could ask. The lingering question is not wether he is a good coach, if he can improve the culture, or if he can hire good assistants, but if his style/system is conducive to a long term high quality program.
Fortunately LSU has made a good decision to save this season by giving him this opportunity, but unfortunately they have put themselves in a corner by giving him this opportunity. I think if they don't hire him, they lose him (unless he can swallow pride and he truly just wants to coach the Tigers in any capacity), but if they hire CEO they are rolling the dice on long-term success with a big question mark. They are basing the hire on short-term success taking over 2 already established programs.
I really think if they hire CEO they are not doing long-term damage to the program regardless of his record in the W/L column. CEO will bring in talent and good coaches, and if unsuccessful, another good coach could likely have immediate success. I don't see a problem with offering him an opportunity to take over the program, and giving him 2 more years then a short leash. I also don't have a problem with bringing in Jimbo or Herman, but outside of another off-the-radar home run hire, I would want CEO.
Fortunately LSU has made a good decision to save this season by giving him this opportunity, but unfortunately they have put themselves in a corner by giving him this opportunity. I think if they don't hire him, they lose him (unless he can swallow pride and he truly just wants to coach the Tigers in any capacity), but if they hire CEO they are rolling the dice on long-term success with a big question mark. They are basing the hire on short-term success taking over 2 already established programs.
I really think if they hire CEO they are not doing long-term damage to the program regardless of his record in the W/L column. CEO will bring in talent and good coaches, and if unsuccessful, another good coach could likely have immediate success. I don't see a problem with offering him an opportunity to take over the program, and giving him 2 more years then a short leash. I also don't have a problem with bringing in Jimbo or Herman, but outside of another off-the-radar home run hire, I would want CEO.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:36 am to Bmath
quote:
Miles had an incredibly successful tenure at LSU.
I'm aware, just thought it was funny that we just fired the guy that many described exactly as you said
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:36 am to ibleedprplngld
quote:
All he's done is shorten practice and change formations on offense. He's not reinventing the wheel here.
\
I am against hiring O as coach, but you have no idea what all O has done on stage and behind the scenes. It's a massive amount of effort and change to incorporate.
He's changed workouts, practices, recruiting, media, coaching, playcalling... and that's not including the massive amount of face to face time he has put in (and will continue to put it) with HS coaches.
You want the best La. coaches to come back to La. and stop helping our rivals get La. kids? So does coach O and it WILL HAPPEN if he's hired. You would be surprised how many levels of recruiting this man invests in.
Above all, he's changed the chemistry of the team itself (which energizes the fan base).
Like I said, I do not believe we should hire O - but I am more open to the idea than I ever have been, after watching him navigate the "system" that all coaches do. He's done it like a Maestro.
So he's proven that we should take his shitty record at OM with a grain of salt, because it's clear he is a different coach now. At this point, people are hesitant to hire O because they are embarrassed we'd be hiring a DL coach.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:36 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
I'll let the dudes that actually HIRE coaches worry with this shite
One thing that I do know for certain is that the multitude of "Why Coach O" and "Why not Coach O" threads will have absolutely zero impact on Joe Alleva's decision. Ain't stressing on it.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:37 am to ibleedprplngld
Jimbo is on the decline and the fact that Herman's players "know he is gone" and "won't play for him" shows the lack of leadership in his program.
This post was edited on 10/28/16 at 10:15 am
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:37 am to ibleedprplngld
Les Miles won here because of his recruiting...not because of coaching. Coach O has shown he is capable of being able to coach or allow hired coaches to do their job and he is probably a better recruiter. I am not saying he is the man we should hire but he is definitely in top 3 at this point.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:37 am to Salmon
quote:
so...Miles?
Miles wasn't an X's and O's guy but tried to dictate all of the X's and O's. That's where O is different. He stays the hell out of the way when someone else is better equipped to handle the decision.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:37 am to Bmath
quote:
What if Coach O is elite?
At a minimum the Orgeron bandwagon needs to hold off until we play the better teams on our schedule. A year ago Miles was 7-0. A month later most people wanted him gone for good. Have we learned nothing?
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:37 am to Bmath
quote:That's what I'm talking about. And, that's why I like defensive coaches as HC.
The man can flat out recruit. That's something you must be able to do in order to stay on top.
He doesn't need to be an X's and O's guy. That's what the position coaches are for. We just need him to manage the program by surrounding himself with the best assistants and players.
LSU has shown, year after year, that it will pay for coordinators and assistants and the gap to most of the football world is huge.
So the HC, whomever it will be, in my world would manage the coaches and let them manage the players. Manage staff, provide direction, manage process (e.g. practice length/focus), and recruit like a sumbitch. These offensive geniuses come in and install new systems, need different players [sometimes], but focus too much energy on QBs, WRs, and play calling. In the meantime the rest of the staff is not coordinated with the O. We need and offensive genius as a OC/QB coach, not HC.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:38 am to ibleedprplngld
Neither you nor the other poster have a say in who is the next head coach for LSU. It's just talk. We don't really get to vote on it. I like to call what goes on here "talk" and "people sharing opinions and ideas."
Posted on 10/28/16 at 9:38 am to ibleedprplngld
quote:
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Coach O can be successful here. He already has been.
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NEWS FLASH...He doesn't NEED to reinvent the wheel, we just needed a few tweaks to a program that has ALL the ingredients.
That's the real sad part about Les. He had everything he needed to continue to compete for championships but refused to make a few small changes.
God I hope the next coach doesn't try to "reinvent the wheel" would be a complete dumbass move that could really cost us down the road.
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Coach O can be successful here. He already has been.
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quote:
quote:
This is the definition of being emotional. The man has won 3 MOTHER frickING GAMES. All he's done is shorten practice and change formations on offense. He's not reinventing the wheel here.
NEWS FLASH...He doesn't NEED to reinvent the wheel, we just needed a few tweaks to a program that has ALL the ingredients.
That's the real sad part about Les. He had everything he needed to continue to compete for championships but refused to make a few small changes.
God I hope the next coach doesn't try to "reinvent the wheel" would be a complete dumbass move that could really cost us down the road.
This post was edited on 10/28/16 at 9:40 am
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