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re: The Wheel of Time -- Season 2 coming in September -- Wise Ones Thread (Book Spoilers)
Posted on 12/24/21 at 1:11 am to fdanon
Posted on 12/24/21 at 1:11 am to fdanon
So episode 8 was definitely not my favorite episode, but it actually makes some sense that it closely resembles in some ways episode 1. Both had really good pieces, but they just did not come together as well as they could/should have.
In particular, Rand/Moiraine/Ishy worked really well. As I mentioned before, I like saving Rand's big power moments for upcoming seasons once his knowledge starts getting upgraded, so I had no problems with the more simplistic "battle for Rand's morality" that played out. Loved Moiraine holding the knife to Rand's throat, making good on her threat. And Rand's line about the Egwene that wants to become a wisdom then aes sedai being the Egwene that he loves, that hit home really well and tied up Rand's season 1 arc in a nice bow.
Most everything else was pretty shaky though. Lan simply did not have enough to do, period. Also, it was super weird that the show had Egwene/Nynaeve stay behind at Fal Dara and then instead of letting them be awesome at the battle, we focus on the sister that was an aes sedai reject? And poor Perrin, just got the worst character beats for the entire season, finishing up by standing like a loser while Fain bitch slaps him left and right.
I did love the cold open. Really interesting dynamic as it seems in the show Lews Therin will not be in love with Ilyena but instead was with that Tamyrlin woman, at least thats how it came across to me. And that whole scene really gave me big foreshadowing vibes for the last book when Rand/Egwene battle over the decision to break the seals to the Dark One's prison. Could be more evidence for the Egwene/Rand romance will last the entire series theory.
So much more to think/talk about, but I need to rewatch it again. The Seanchan did look cool. And was that Rand looking at the spine of the world? Are we jumping really forward and getting Rand/Aiel in season 2?
In particular, Rand/Moiraine/Ishy worked really well. As I mentioned before, I like saving Rand's big power moments for upcoming seasons once his knowledge starts getting upgraded, so I had no problems with the more simplistic "battle for Rand's morality" that played out. Loved Moiraine holding the knife to Rand's throat, making good on her threat. And Rand's line about the Egwene that wants to become a wisdom then aes sedai being the Egwene that he loves, that hit home really well and tied up Rand's season 1 arc in a nice bow.
Most everything else was pretty shaky though. Lan simply did not have enough to do, period. Also, it was super weird that the show had Egwene/Nynaeve stay behind at Fal Dara and then instead of letting them be awesome at the battle, we focus on the sister that was an aes sedai reject? And poor Perrin, just got the worst character beats for the entire season, finishing up by standing like a loser while Fain bitch slaps him left and right.
I did love the cold open. Really interesting dynamic as it seems in the show Lews Therin will not be in love with Ilyena but instead was with that Tamyrlin woman, at least thats how it came across to me. And that whole scene really gave me big foreshadowing vibes for the last book when Rand/Egwene battle over the decision to break the seals to the Dark One's prison. Could be more evidence for the Egwene/Rand romance will last the entire series theory.
So much more to think/talk about, but I need to rewatch it again. The Seanchan did look cool. And was that Rand looking at the spine of the world? Are we jumping really forward and getting Rand/Aiel in season 2?
1
Posted on 12/24/21 at 12:15 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
I thought about doing a wall of text for my opinion on the finale, but it's not worth it. The episode was so bad. So many of the decisions don't make sense and have ramifications that will either get ignored or completely bungled because Rafe and the writers are incompetent.
I'll never understand why the 3 main characters of the books are given such a side-show treatment. The "Who the dragon" angle lead to no painful reveals and no development of your main character.
I'll stop.
I'll never understand why the 3 main characters of the books are given such a side-show treatment. The "Who the dragon" angle lead to no painful reveals and no development of your main character.
I'll stop.
This post was edited on 12/29/21 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 12/24/21 at 12:53 pm to oauron
I’ll say this. It’s pretty clear Rafe was the wrong choice for this.
While he was allegedly a huge fan, he’s incapable of separating his politics and worldview from the material, and just couldn’t see that he needed to stay relatively close to the source material in S1 and not worry about future seasons.
While he was allegedly a huge fan, he’s incapable of separating his politics and worldview from the material, and just couldn’t see that he needed to stay relatively close to the source material in S1 and not worry about future seasons.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 6:14 pm to Fun Bunch
See, the problem is we have no idea whether Rafe was successful or not in the big picture.
I mean, he clearly succeeded initially because the show has been a huge success. Its now guaranteed at least 3 seasons, and based on most of the metrics that I've seen, its probably going to make it the full eight.
The question is how many new viewers with little WOT familiarity did Rafe bring to the show with this vision versus how many of the book readers he will lose?
Truthfully, I think things were pretty great through episode seven. The problem with the finale is less with the book readers who they are clearly not as interested in as the non book readers who also reacted pretty negatively at least to the extent I've seen. Season 2 if it makes the jump that many shows make should solve alot of this, but it does give the show less margin for error than if they had nailed the finale.
I mean, he clearly succeeded initially because the show has been a huge success. Its now guaranteed at least 3 seasons, and based on most of the metrics that I've seen, its probably going to make it the full eight.
The question is how many new viewers with little WOT familiarity did Rafe bring to the show with this vision versus how many of the book readers he will lose?
Truthfully, I think things were pretty great through episode seven. The problem with the finale is less with the book readers who they are clearly not as interested in as the non book readers who also reacted pretty negatively at least to the extent I've seen. Season 2 if it makes the jump that many shows make should solve alot of this, but it does give the show less margin for error than if they had nailed the finale.
Posted on 12/25/21 at 10:08 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
and based on most of the metrics that I've seen, its probably going to make it the full eight
The actual reviews the audience are giving the show aren't impressive at all (7.4 rating on IMDb, 72 audience score on rotten tomatoes, 3.5 on Amazon itself). There are only two episodes that have ratings above 8 on IMDb (episodes 4 and 7), which isn't the sign of a show with staying power.
The last episode has a rating of 6.3/10 on IMDb, which is pretty awful (that's a last season of Game of Thrones type rating). It'll be interesting to see how many watchers actually bother to return for season 2. Having people finish watching a season of a show they are iffy on after they've already invested 4 hours watching the first few episodes is one thing, having them come back for season 2 after a garbage season 1 finale is quite another.
This post was edited on 12/25/21 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 12/26/21 at 1:47 am to auyushu
This is true. But alot of these "reviews" are not really on the up and up. They are book readers who took to review bombing the show out of anger and spite.
Its amazon's biggest success in terms of watch through rate and multiple other metrics that amazon cares about. There are rumors floating around that the show is already being greenlit through season 4.
I think they can keep enough of the audience to at least give season 2 a try, but they are really going to need to step it up a few notches if they want the show to maintain, let alone, grow further.
Its amazon's biggest success in terms of watch through rate and multiple other metrics that amazon cares about. There are rumors floating around that the show is already being greenlit through season 4.
I think they can keep enough of the audience to at least give season 2 a try, but they are really going to need to step it up a few notches if they want the show to maintain, let alone, grow further.
Posted on 12/26/21 at 10:23 am to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
think they can keep enough of the audience to at least give season 2 a try, but they are really going to need to step it up a few notches if they want the show to maintain, let alone, grow further.
I agree with this. They are going to need some really positive word of mouth to bring some people back to watch. I personally won't be watching season 2 until it's fully released and only if I read a ton of reviews saying it's improved a ton. I still haven't watched the last episode, but probably will once I get back home from visiting family just so I can see what all the complaints are about.
As far as the review bombs go, pretty much every show has to deal with that from angry purists, it's only the shows that don't get good reviews from normal viewers where it is an issue. And for every review bomb by an angry book purist you generally have a 10/10 review from someone just super excited to see WOT on film, no matter what it looks like. Those reviews generally even out unless the show is weak.
I mean, episode 4 has an 8.8 rating on IMDb, while episode 8 is currently a 6.2. That sort of fluctuation is legit disappointment with bad episodes, not review bombing.
This post was edited on 12/26/21 at 10:31 am
Posted on 12/26/21 at 12:03 pm to auyushu
quote:
The actual reviews the audience are giving the show aren't impressive at all (7.4 rating on IMDb, 72 audience score on rotten tomatoes, 3.5 on Amazon itself).
I don’t disagree that its probably not really true that it’s as popular as they’re implying (“#1 show in the world!” yet I can’t find anyone else I know whose watched it). But, that said, these reviews aren’t really accurate either. Amazon had 8,000 1 star reviews complaining about characters being black before the first episode had even been out long enough to be watched.
Posted on 12/26/21 at 12:10 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:
yet I can’t find anyone else I know whose watched it
Popping up all over my feeds from friends and family who are not fantasy people at all.
Several I have seen were raving about it and I can’t believe they would ever watch this.
Posted on 12/26/21 at 3:22 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:
Amazon had 8,000 1 star reviews complaining about characters being black before the first episode had even been out long enough to be watched.
So did the Witcher when Triss wasn't a white redhead and most the characters were diverse POC. Didn't stop every first season episode but one being rated 8.3 or higher on IMDB. WOT has poor episode ratings because the normal people aren't rating it well, not because of serial downvoter types. The episode ratings are going further down as time goes on as well, not upwards.
And honestly I believe they are having great streaming numbers like they say, the show had a ton of hype, there isn't a ton else on right now, and we have holiday breaks as well. And it is only 8 episodes long, so once someone watches the first 3 episodes they likely will finish it.
But there is a huge difference between finishing the season and thinking it was good, or coming back for season 2.
This post was edited on 12/26/21 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 12/26/21 at 6:02 pm to auyushu
quote:
So did the Witcher when Triss wasn't a white redhead and most the characters were diverse POC
The Witcher also doesn't have every single village or city having the precise ratio of gender, race, and ethnicity to make sure they check all the diversity and inclusiveness boxes.
It's blatant and distracting. It completely rips you out of a fantasy setting.
Posted on 12/26/21 at 6:38 pm to Centinel
quote:
It's blatant and distracting. It completely rips you out of a fantasy setting.
Without a doubt. I was just saying that having woke casting didn't stop Witcher from having good reviews. Witcher had good reviews because it was a good show despite that, and WOT has mediocre reviews because it is mediocre.
Posted on 12/27/21 at 6:13 am to auyushu
The Witcher is a great reference. As someone pointed out earlier (you I think?), review bombing happens all the time both positive and negative, and it balances out in the end. While a 7.3 is a good IMDb rating for movies, it’s not for tv series for whatever reason. An 8 or above is the usual accepted score for a series being good
Posted on 12/27/21 at 6:57 am to Sneaky__Sally
After having time to digest everything, and rewatching the season, I think I am done.
The show is just not good, and an extreme departure from the real story.
The show is just not good, and an extreme departure from the real story.
Posted on 12/27/21 at 8:59 am to Roaad
I am really sad that this turned out to be so mediocre.
its not as bad as people on here make it out to be, but it just isn't good either.
Oh well.
its not as bad as people on here make it out to be, but it just isn't good either.
Oh well.
Posted on 12/27/21 at 9:36 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
its not as bad as people on here make it out to be, but it just isn't good either.
my feeling as well
Posted on 12/27/21 at 9:40 am to Midget Death Squad
And to be clear, it isn't the production values. I think those are fine and a lot better than TD's darling Witcher.
its the story and unnecessary departures from source material. Some pretty subpar writing.
its the story and unnecessary departures from source material. Some pretty subpar writing.
Posted on 12/27/21 at 9:58 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
And to be clear, it isn't the production values. I think those are fine and a lot better than TD's darling Witcher.
no. this is a terrible take
quote:
its the story and unnecessary departures from source material. Some pretty subpar writing.
but you are spot on here
Posted on 12/27/21 at 10:15 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
no. this is a terrible take
I do not agree, people are seeing what they want to see.
If the writing was good, the production values would't even be mentioned.
Posted on 12/27/21 at 10:45 am to Fun Bunch
FB, I am genuinely grateful that someone here showed a passion for the source material and the Grace/eagerness to give the show a chance. You have taken a lot of arrows. I truly hoped your faith/hope would be ultimately justified, and bring me back (I could not get past the first episode). Oh well
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