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Message
What's the smallest machine that can fit a 3.5" hdd?
Posted on 5/27/23 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 5/27/23 at 4:00 pm
I'm moving ahead with a clustered NVR/NAS project. I want each node to be as small, quiet, and low power consumption as possible while still being able to fit a 3.5" HDD. A pcie or m.2 slot would also be a plus in case I want to add an NPU or whatever.
I've been looking at used USFF boxes on ebay and they pretty much all only take 2.5" drives, which is understandable given the space constraints. But I was hoping that someone knew of a particular model that'll hold a 3.5" anyway.
I've also considered an RPi or similar SBC 3d printed chassis which basically just lets you strap it to a hard drive, but I think I want a bit more power than that.
Will I just have to use SFF machines? Is USFF just too small?
I've been looking at used USFF boxes on ebay and they pretty much all only take 2.5" drives, which is understandable given the space constraints. But I was hoping that someone knew of a particular model that'll hold a 3.5" anyway.
I've also considered an RPi or similar SBC 3d printed chassis which basically just lets you strap it to a hard drive, but I think I want a bit more power than that.
Will I just have to use SFF machines? Is USFF just too small?
4
Posted on 5/28/23 at 12:17 am to Korkstand
Do you need processor? Why not just a couple of 1 bay enclosures? Also, it's not clear why a 2-4 bay Synology wouldn't meet your needs based on what you've stated so far. What do you need the box to do other than record video?
My perspective is that it is such a pain in the arse to find the right power supplies that fit, I gave up trying HTPC/mATX years ago.
The Synology DS120J is cheap and compact, and even though it has a power brick, seems to check most of the box. Alternatively, I have a 1520 and a 1520+, and I'm about to migrate the data from the 20 to the 20+, if you're looking for that. Hell, I'll even sell it with drives (3 3.6 TB drives, 2 5.5TB drives, all WD, none of them SMR.) Synology has a camera app for recording, although I haven't used it.
My perspective is that it is such a pain in the arse to find the right power supplies that fit, I gave up trying HTPC/mATX years ago.
The Synology DS120J is cheap and compact, and even though it has a power brick, seems to check most of the box. Alternatively, I have a 1520 and a 1520+, and I'm about to migrate the data from the 20 to the 20+, if you're looking for that. Hell, I'll even sell it with drives (3 3.6 TB drives, 2 5.5TB drives, all WD, none of them SMR.) Synology has a camera app for recording, although I haven't used it.
This post was edited on 5/28/23 at 12:19 am
Posted on 5/28/23 at 1:27 am to LemmyLives
I'm not sure what this will grow into, but I know that I want several nodes to run a proxmox cluster so that eliminates most nas boxes. I'm going to at least give a go at running ceph on it as a scalable NAS. But my main objective is to develop an easy to use NVR/VMS cluster, which doesn't necessarily need a lot of processor but I think it would be nice to have at least a bit of power in case I end up decoding video and running analysis. This is also why I'm looking for something with a little bit of upgradability if I can add an NPU or GPU to one or more nodes.
I guess Synology's NVR app is pretty nice but the licensing fees add up and I'm not sure how well it scales anyway. Plus building my own NVR app has always been a goal of mine, and I want to build it from the ground up with clustering in mind.
And oh yeah, the point of this thread..
Spinning disks are and will be for the foreseeable future the cheapest way to get lots of storage. I realize that I'm adding the cost of a new node along with each drive, but I think that's a good trade for my application because it brings redundancy and durability. The compute capacity will probably far outpace what is needed as the cluster grows, but there are myriad ways to analyze video so I will just add things for the nodes to work on.
I guess Synology's NVR app is pretty nice but the licensing fees add up and I'm not sure how well it scales anyway. Plus building my own NVR app has always been a goal of mine, and I want to build it from the ground up with clustering in mind.
And oh yeah, the point of this thread..
Spinning disks are and will be for the foreseeable future the cheapest way to get lots of storage. I realize that I'm adding the cost of a new node along with each drive, but I think that's a good trade for my application because it brings redundancy and durability. The compute capacity will probably far outpace what is needed as the cluster grows, but there are myriad ways to analyze video so I will just add things for the nodes to work on.
Posted on 5/28/23 at 2:48 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Will I just have to use SFF machines? Is USFF just too small?
The Dell SFF has room for one 3.5" drive. The Dell micro has room for one 2.5" drive. That's probably true for the other major manufacturers as well.
Posted on 5/28/23 at 4:23 pm to TAMU-93
That's what I'm seeing. I ended up buying 4 of the SFF T1700 for a total of about $450. Next I will get a few of the "renewed" enterprise HDDs at about $10/TB. I think I can fit a 2.5" boot drive in these things as well.
Worst case I will learn a bit about clustering and I can sell it all for about what I paid. Best case I end up developing the world's greatest NVR/VMS software and hardware solution.
Worst case I will learn a bit about clustering and I can sell it all for about what I paid. Best case I end up developing the world's greatest NVR/VMS software and hardware solution.
Posted on 5/28/23 at 5:24 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 5/28/23 at 5:27 pm to TAMU-93
It's made to look like a DVD drive?
Posted on 5/28/23 at 5:30 pm to Korkstand
Yeah, it replaces the DVD drive, assuming you don't need that :)
Posted on 5/28/23 at 6:47 pm to Korkstand
Look into a 1u server. Qnap, buffalo, etc all make them if you want something name brand. The are a lot of HP/Dell EMC rebranded ones or there too
Those are great, you can replace the CPU/RAM with basically whatever will be compatible with the chipset, and will run like a champ in any environment
Those are great, you can replace the CPU/RAM with basically whatever will be compatible with the chipset, and will run like a champ in any environment
Posted on 5/28/23 at 6:53 pm to TAMU-93
Yeah I realize that, I would just prefer a flat black face plate.
Looks like a good cheap option though, thanks for the link.
I'll use these SFF boxes for a while, but now I'm wondering if I can find/build/print a 3.5" caddy/enclosure to piggyback on an USFF box.
Looks like a good cheap option though, thanks for the link.
I'll use these SFF boxes for a while, but now I'm wondering if I can find/build/print a 3.5" caddy/enclosure to piggyback on an USFF box.
Posted on 5/28/23 at 7:09 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:I have, and I even bought one, but this is kind of the opposite direction I'm trying to go. Maybe it doesn't make sense, or maybe I just can't express my idea in a way that makes sense, but I prefer more low power nodes vs fewer high power nodes for this application. I would rather 4 nodes watching 4 cameras each vs 1 node watching 16 cameras.
Look into a 1u server.
Posted on 5/28/23 at 7:19 pm to Korkstand
What about Intel stick pc with external drive?
Posted on 5/28/23 at 7:38 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I would rather 4 nodes watching 4 cameras each vs 1 node watching 16 cameras.
For what reason? Even with those low power CPUs in those 1u servers you could still setup a container for each instance. You can throw a 35w CPU in those things
But I still don't really understand why you want a node per camera?
Posted on 5/28/23 at 7:48 pm to notsince98
An interesting idea, but I would rather not depend on wifi. Maybe a USB ethernet dongle would be reliable?
I may end up using neural compute sticks on my nodes though. Either that or coral or similar.
I may end up using neural compute sticks on my nodes though. Either that or coral or similar.
Posted on 5/28/23 at 8:07 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:Redundancy mostly.
For what reason?
quote:Would still have multiple single points of failure.
Even with those low power CPUs in those 1u servers you could still setup a container for each instance. You can throw a 35w CPU in those things
quote:Eventually I'd like the camera to be the node so no centralized servers are required at all.
But I still don't really understand why you want a node per camera?
Posted on 5/28/23 at 8:19 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Redundancy mostly.
Snapshots man! But I don't see how separated nodes is still redundant, especially with cameras. I imagine the footage is still being offloaded to a different device
Posted on 5/28/23 at 9:35 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:Hm I don't see how separated nodes could *not* be redundant.
But I don't see how separated nodes is still redundant, especially with cameras.
quote:Right, footage will be duplicated asap. And if a node drops out then the footage it was storing will be re-duplicated among the remaining nodes asap.
I imagine the footage is still being offloaded to a different device
I want any site to be able to start small with 1 node (I mean down to residential small, like a handful of cameras and no server rack) and scale up as needed to add capacity and/or redundancy.
Maybe I could do most of my development and testing in VM's on one machine, but I want more of a real world setup myself. Like I legit want to take a node down, add a GPU or whatever to it, and rejoin the cluster with no downtime.
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