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re: Olympic Soccer Thread - 7/29
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:24 pm to WarSlamEagle
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:24 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
OK, but I don't see how that applies to me.
Maybe I'm wrong but I would be surprised if you weren't one of the ones bashing the Dutch after that game.
quote:
And it's funny that you are whining about people like me not helping the popularity of soccer in America...I'm a fan of our own domestic league, and you think that's dumb.
I'm not whining. I'm fine with how soccer is in this country and accept the fact it's a niche sport. In fact I kind of like it that way. Also, that is my point and why I called it a "sad irony". Again, maybe I'm wrong about you specifically but I'm talking about the general attitude of a soccer person.
2
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:32 pm to RandySavage
quote:
I would be surprised if you weren't one of the ones bashing the Dutch after that game.
Consider yourself surprised, homeboy.
quote:
Again, maybe I'm wrong about you specifically but I'm talking about the general attitude of a soccer person.
You didn't even know how many teams I liked. You were wrong about my attitude towards the WC Final. Pretty obvious that you are wrong about me.
Good try, though.
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:37 pm to WarSlamEagle
Then I apologize to you, but you do understand the kind of people I'm talking about.
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:38 pm to RandySavage
quote:
The sad irony is that you guys really do love soccer and want so badly for it to grow in this country. However, it's the sissy European attitude that you, and so many other, "soccer" elitists feel like you have to exhibit that is the exact reason it won't catch on as a mainstream sport here. 2010 WC Final reaction is a perfect example.
what the frick is wrong with you? why do you even bother posting on this board?
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:41 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Then I apologize to you, but you do understand the kind of people I'm talking about.
Apology accepted, although I'm not completely sure what you're talking about.
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:46 pm to RandySavage
quote:
The average American is going to side with the team putting it out there doing whatever it takes to win the game, the average Euro-soccer person is going to side with team B because they play "beautifully" and defend their actions as "part of the game".
I'm not quite so sure you can break this down in terms of Americans v Europeans. It probably more often simply comes down to which team someone is pulling for.
For example, I'll be surprised to not see a lot of Chelsea fans complaining about the same tactics they used in CL when, say, Stoke employ them in the EPL as soon as Chelsea's current transformation toward fey, finesse type attackers is complete.
About the WC final, I do agree that there's certainly an irony in that Robben actually trying to play through that foul on Puyol and still score instead of rolling into a suffering ball probably kept the referee from being forced to call it.
This post was edited on 7/30/12 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:46 pm to theOG
quote:
what the frick is wrong with you?
Nothing.
quote:
why do you even bother posting on this board?
I like soccer.
Posted on 7/30/12 at 9:51 pm to wm72
quote:
I'm not quite so sure you can break this down in terms of Americans v Europeans
More like American vs. most of the rest of the soccer world. It's just a general mindset toward sport and competing.
quote:
For example, I'll be surprised to not see a lot of Chelsea fans complaining about the same tactics they used in CL when, say, Stoke employ them in the EPL as soon as Chelsea's current transformation toward fey, finesse type attackers is complete.
I can't speak for other Chelsea fans but I have no problem with Stoke or any other team that does whatever they think gives them the best chance to get a result. It's what you are supposed to do in sports. This is the crux of my argument about the difference between Americans attitude toward sport and that of soccer purists. For some reason they think team owe it to the game to play a certain way which is complete bs. In every other sport various styles are celebrated and embraced and it's what makes games interesting. In soccer you have to play a certain way or you are somehow inferior.
quote:
About the WC final, I do agree that there's certainly an irony in that Robben actually trying to play through that foul on Puyol and still score instead of rolling into a suffering ball probably kept the referee from being forced to call it.
Referees are the majority of the problem with the way they constantly reward diving and punish players trying to play fairly. The fact it was Robben who actually tried to stay on his feet makes the irony even more amusing.
Posted on 7/30/12 at 10:11 pm to RandySavage
quote:
I have no problem with Stoke or any other team that does whatever they think gives them the best chance to get a result. It's what you are supposed to do in sports. This is the crux of my argument about the difference between Americans attitude toward sport and that of soccer purists.
I completely agree with you insofar as the onus to "protect to game" being on the rules committees and officials more than an overmatched team, or simply one with a strength in defense and organization, opening the game up just to make it more entertaining.
However, I think soccer has just as many American fans who object to packing the box etc as Europeans and, while soccer probably has more outcry about certain tactics, defense oriented strategies in American football, basketball and baseball certainly have their share of vocal detractors (as well as a history of constant rule changes to promote more scoring).
In that regard, most Europeans are much more resistant to any type changes in soccer rules to open up the game than Americans are in other sports.
This post was edited on 7/30/12 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 7/30/12 at 10:20 pm to wm72
quote:
However, I think soccer has just as many American fans who object to packing the box etc as Europeans
American soccer fans yes, I'm talking about the average American sports fan.
quote:
while soccer probably has more outcry about certain tactics, defense oriented strategies in American football, basketball and baseball certainly have their share of vocal detractors (as well as a history of constant rule changes to promote more scoring).
To some degree and yes there are defintely a lot of dweebs who love 56-49 football games and 12-8 baseball games etc... but I think there is also a large section of the population, including myself, who hate rules to increase scoring. NFL has gotten absurd with how easy it is to pass the ball now, the juiced ball/steroid era in baseball was lame, watching basketball with no defense is horrible.
quote:
In that regard, most Europeans are much more resistant to any type changes in soccer rules to open up the game than Americans are in other sports.
I don't think any fundamental rule changes are necessary. I think PKs and cards should be handled differently but certainly nothing needs to be done to increase scoring. I just don't understand why a hard nosed tough defensive team is celebrated in almost any other team sport but met with such derision in soccer. There is more to the game than passing the ball around.
Posted on 7/30/12 at 10:37 pm to RandySavage
quote:
To some degree and yes there are defintely a lot of dweebs who love 56-49 football games and 12-8 baseball games etc... but I think there is also a large section of the population, including myself, who hate rules to increase scoring. NFL has gotten absurd with how easy it is to pass the ball now, the juiced ball/steroid era in baseball was lame, watching basketball with no defense is horrible.
I couldn't agree more. I preferred the old fashioned National League 1-0 pitcher's duels with desperate hit and runs, stolen bases, bunts etc etc . . .
I think were we differ in opinion is that I feel it's a shrinking minority of Americans who actually enjoy great defense in any sport they follow. Hence my point about Americans seeming much worse at times than Europeans in manipulating rules in every way possible to promote scorefests.
quote:
I just don't understand why a hard nosed tough defensive team is celebrated in almost any other team sport but met with such derision in soccer.
They can be celebrated to some degree but I agree that it's rare. They are more often seen as villains like those NBA Piston teams.
This post was edited on 7/30/12 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 7/30/12 at 10:48 pm to wm72
quote:
I think were we differ in opinion is that I feel it's a shrinking minority of Americans who actually enjoy great defense in any sport they follow. Hence my point about Americans seeming much worse at times than Europeans in manipulating rules in every way possible to promote scorefests.
Shrinking yes, the new generation obviously is going to like more scoring but right now I think there are still a decent number old school guys out there.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 7:22 am to RandySavage
quote:
I'm not whining.
All you do is whine.
And seriously? WE are hurting the sport with our supporting multiple clubs, including the ones in our country?
Yet you show up and troll anyone who isn't a Chelsea fan, that my friend.. is elitist.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 7:26 am to Jumbeauxlaya
quote:
All you do is whine.
That's awesome coming from you.
quote:
WE are hurting the sport with our supporting multiple clubs, including the ones in our country?
No, not by supporting multiple clubs that's just lame. Soccer people hurt the sport in this country with their pansy attitudes and constant justification for all the bs that goes in soccer.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 7:30 am to wm72
quote:
I just don't understand why a hard nosed tough defensive team is celebrated in almost any other team sport but met with such derision in soccer.
Because defensive football is insanely more difficult (and not to mention a lot more fun to watch) than soccer.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 7:51 am to wm72
Has been a minority for the past 20 years, and continues to shrink. Say what you want about the steroid era, but it saved baseball after the strike. NFL continues to grow and offenses are well past 3 yards in a cloud of dust offenses. NBA is actually quite lenient defensively, especially compared to FIBA where refs whistle EVERYTHING. If Americans like anything, it's watching world-class athletes showcase their talent. Under many of the old rules, that wasn't possible because great defense was largely contingent on cheap shots, holding, spitballs, etc. It may have swung too far in favor of offense now, but I think it's closer to being fair now that it was in the past.
By the way, as I'm typing this, it occurs to me that Barcelona/Spain is effectively like Alabama (or any old school run the ball, defensive team) in that they focus on ball possession/time of possession and wear their opponents down. (Aesthetically, they're different of course.) They're a pre-shot clock era NBA team! A key to any good defense is not being called into action a majority of the time.
And there really is no American sports equivalent to parking a bus, but from my experience, the average American, non-soccer fan does not enjoy it. I don't begrudge a team using those tactics, but it certainly isn't fun to watch.
By the way, as I'm typing this, it occurs to me that Barcelona/Spain is effectively like Alabama (or any old school run the ball, defensive team) in that they focus on ball possession/time of possession and wear their opponents down. (Aesthetically, they're different of course.) They're a pre-shot clock era NBA team! A key to any good defense is not being called into action a majority of the time.
And there really is no American sports equivalent to parking a bus, but from my experience, the average American, non-soccer fan does not enjoy it. I don't begrudge a team using those tactics, but it certainly isn't fun to watch.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 8:10 am to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
Has been a minority for the past 20 years, and continues to shrink
Don't disagree but I think it's unfortunate.
quote:
By the way, as I'm typing this, it occurs to me that Barcelona/Spain is effectively like Alabama (or any old school run the ball, defensive team) in that they focus on ball possession/time of possession and wear their opponents down. (Aesthetically, they're different of course.) They're a pre-shot clock era NBA team! A key to any good defense is not being called into action a majority of the time.
Don't disagree totally with this either which is why I'm so dumbfounded when people try so hard to act like they embody "the beautiful game", though it seems a lot more people are coming around now. To me watching them pass around the midfield for 65-70 min is just as boring as a team "parking the bus".
quote:
I don't begrudge a team using those tactics, but it certainly isn't fun to watch.
Fair enough. Personally I find it pretty interesting to see if said park the bus team can repel attack after attack for 90 min to get the result while the other team has to try to figure out a way to break it down. Yea, if every game were like that it would suck but in certain situations I think it's great to watch.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 8:22 am to RandySavage
quote:
Personally I find it pretty interesting to see if said park the bus team can repel attack after attack for 90 min to get the result while the other team has to try to figure out a way to break it down.
It's interesting in a way where you take 2 seconds and think, "hmm, that was actually impressive"... but it's far from interesting in the "I'm going to stay awake and fully in tune with the game for 95 minutes" sense..
Posted on 7/31/12 at 8:24 am to RandySavage
quote:
Personally I find it pretty interesting to see if said park the bus team can repel attack after attack for 90 min to get the result while the other team has to try to figure out a way to break it down. Yea, if every game were like that it would suck but in certain situations I think it's great to watch.
totally agree.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 8:31 am to RandySavage
"Parking the bus" is what I can't stand. You are basically admitting from the get-go that you are not good enough to win and are playing for a draw (or PKs in a tournament format). And as said before, I really can't think of another sport where you can make a comparison to a team doing that.
At least with the tiki-taka, they are still making runs and playing balls forward. To me it's like having a bad arse running game and lulling a team to sleep and them killing them with a PA pass (best analogy I can come up with for that style). You are controlling the ball and setting the flow of the game and still attacking on offense.
At least with the tiki-taka, they are still making runs and playing balls forward. To me it's like having a bad arse running game and lulling a team to sleep and them killing them with a PA pass (best analogy I can come up with for that style). You are controlling the ball and setting the flow of the game and still attacking on offense.
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