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Started By
Message
re: Dribble, dribble, low percentage pass. Rinse. Repeat.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 8:16 pm to RollTide4Ever
Posted on 7/1/19 at 8:16 pm to RollTide4Ever
quote:
has resources tied up elsewhere (looking at you NCAA). I've long advocated bringing in ncaa and middle school/h.s. into the forefront of talent development.
Lol no
While these guys are in college with practice and game restrictions with a short season
Their counter parts the same age across the world are professionals at 16-18 where it’s their job soccer 24/7
The rest of your post is spot on though
This post was edited on 7/1/19 at 10:49 pm
1
Posted on 7/1/19 at 8:58 pm to SoulGlo
This thread was DEFINITELY needed
/s
/s
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:41 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
quote:
Problem in the US is many youth teams main goal in winning instead of training and teaching kids. Sadly there is a lot of mo way invested in this system and it’s going to be hard to change that culture
this is spot on
results don't even matter until about 14 in overseas youth set ups.
its more focused on player development
Absolutely my issue.
I got a UPSL team involved with my youth club, and the owner decided to work with us specifically for our ability to teach the game and develop players. Now, he is making decisions based on everything the US system suck for... record, stats. I have a group that follows my trainer and I, despite records and stats. I told them up front two years ago that we would get our teeth kicked in on the score board for a while, especially since only one of our experienced players is actually in the age group we play. The rest are playing up 1-3 years.
I told them "I don't care about records, and neither should you. Watch how they play as we progress, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I want to dominate when they are 15, not win a couple games now."
The club owner is saying "look at the records. We are going to do this.". Dude's going to frick up his pipeline before it even starts. Records, stats.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 11:29 pm to cwil177
quote:
We have people in this thread arguing that we don’t produce enough technical players, relying too much on athleticism, while others argue we aren’t getting enough athletes
Athletes up top...route 1 soccer.
Things are better now than 25 years ago, but only marginally so. I agree that we have gotten better tecni5. However, imho, the youth leagues are about talent harvesting, not so much player development on the tactical side. Just my .02
Posted on 7/2/19 at 12:21 am to StraightCashHomey21
I know about limits of college.
Posted on 7/2/19 at 12:22 am to jimmy the leg
Yes. Lack of athletes is nowhere near the problem. Yet, my state youth organization's new TECHNICAL DIRECTOR says that the problem with our youth competitiveness must be solved with conditioning and physical strength/agility and NOT TECHNICAL ABILITY
Posted on 7/2/19 at 12:46 am to SoulGlo
I see the OP got 17 upvotes and no one downvoted so I’ll play the contrarian.
All you hear about within the youth structure is about passing. “MOVE THE BALL, MOVE THE BALL!!!” The art of dribbling to beat opponents and the freedom to let our players do it is not coached enough.
It’s evident at the national team level when they try, unsuccessfully, to cleanly keep the ball on the dribble AND THEN panic and are forced into a bad pass.
No, we don’t have a Messi but what makes him so spectacular is the dribble. It’s not always a bad thing, and in fact, we need to empower this more with our youth players. Take people on!
All you hear about within the youth structure is about passing. “MOVE THE BALL, MOVE THE BALL!!!” The art of dribbling to beat opponents and the freedom to let our players do it is not coached enough.
It’s evident at the national team level when they try, unsuccessfully, to cleanly keep the ball on the dribble AND THEN panic and are forced into a bad pass.
No, we don’t have a Messi but what makes him so spectacular is the dribble. It’s not always a bad thing, and in fact, we need to empower this more with our youth players. Take people on!
Posted on 7/2/19 at 1:31 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
All you hear about within the youth structure is about passing
Low percentage passes.
quote:
The art of dribbling to beat opponents and the freedom to let our players do it is not coached enough.
It's part of the game, and should not be ignored.
quote:
It’s evident at the national team level when they try, unsuccessfully, to cleanly keep the ball on the dribble AND THEN panic and are forced into a bad pass.
Ok, nope.
They dribble into pressure, then look for a pass. They allow the opponent a chance to take the ball. It's mental laziness. Surprise surprise, the opponent takes the ball. There are times when taking on players is the best move. It happens often. These guys are foregoing passing to open men in favor of dribbling or hitting a 50/50 ball to a covered teammate.
Players are faster and more maneuverable WITHOUT THE BALL. Passing for possession isn't just about keeping the ball. It's about creating, then exploiting, weaknesses in the opponent. These guys can dribble. The other guys can disrupt it. All it takes is discipline.
This post was edited on 7/2/19 at 1:38 am
Posted on 7/2/19 at 1:32 am to GeorgeTheGreek
Glad I’m not the only contrarian getting downvoted in here 
Posted on 7/2/19 at 2:05 am to cwil177
All I'll say is this...
we may have caught lightening in a bottle in 2002, but it can't be stated enough that we made a World Cup quarterfinals and we did it by outplaying and beating a top 5 team, drawing with the hosts, dominating our most hated rival, and getting fricked by a ref in an evenly matched game with the team that made the finals.
We did all of that with a non-existent youth system and a domestic league that was less than a decade old.
This idea that we have no shot to compete is so dumb on so many levels. Despite how complacent, backwards and corrupt the top of the USSF is, you can't ignore that our youth development is churning out some legit talent for the upcoming generation. I mean, look at what we did against France in the U-20 World Cup. We've cried wolf many times when it comes to this, but I really feel like our reckoning is coming with our first true golden generation led by Pulisic and Adams, with guys like McKennie, Weah, Pomykal, Sargent all coming along. That is the first batch of our post-IMG/Bradenton youth system. That is a pretty fricking great way to open it.
Those guys will be in their prime once 2026 rolls around... and look who is hosting that World Cup.
After that, I think we can expect to see even more quality as it continues to grow.
Now, talent is only a part of the equation. It's up to the USSF to not only find the right coaches to put in charge of the USMNT and the USYNT's, but also to work on getting premier coaching at the academies as well.
That's the part that scares me.
ETA: One more thing... you want proof that we are building towards something?
The U-20 squad that we just took to the World Cup was 100% made up of guys signed to professional contracts, and that doesn't include McKennie, Adams, Pulisic and Sargent who were all eligible to be on that team.
It's the first time ever that we had a U-20 squad that had zero college players on it.
I'll stop short of saying what we're doing is definitely working and doesn't need to be tweaked, but we're doing something right and it should only get better from here.
we may have caught lightening in a bottle in 2002, but it can't be stated enough that we made a World Cup quarterfinals and we did it by outplaying and beating a top 5 team, drawing with the hosts, dominating our most hated rival, and getting fricked by a ref in an evenly matched game with the team that made the finals.
We did all of that with a non-existent youth system and a domestic league that was less than a decade old.
This idea that we have no shot to compete is so dumb on so many levels. Despite how complacent, backwards and corrupt the top of the USSF is, you can't ignore that our youth development is churning out some legit talent for the upcoming generation. I mean, look at what we did against France in the U-20 World Cup. We've cried wolf many times when it comes to this, but I really feel like our reckoning is coming with our first true golden generation led by Pulisic and Adams, with guys like McKennie, Weah, Pomykal, Sargent all coming along. That is the first batch of our post-IMG/Bradenton youth system. That is a pretty fricking great way to open it.
Those guys will be in their prime once 2026 rolls around... and look who is hosting that World Cup.
After that, I think we can expect to see even more quality as it continues to grow.
Now, talent is only a part of the equation. It's up to the USSF to not only find the right coaches to put in charge of the USMNT and the USYNT's, but also to work on getting premier coaching at the academies as well.
That's the part that scares me.
ETA: One more thing... you want proof that we are building towards something?
The U-20 squad that we just took to the World Cup was 100% made up of guys signed to professional contracts, and that doesn't include McKennie, Adams, Pulisic and Sargent who were all eligible to be on that team.
It's the first time ever that we had a U-20 squad that had zero college players on it.
I'll stop short of saying what we're doing is definitely working and doesn't need to be tweaked, but we're doing something right and it should only get better from here.
This post was edited on 7/2/19 at 2:21 am
Posted on 7/2/19 at 5:23 am to Broski
Agree with everything you said.
We made huge changes to our player development model in 2006 to be more in line with UEFA standard, and I think we’re just now starting to see the products of that change. The kids Pulisic, Adams, and McKennie’s age are basically the first “batch” of talents that developed entirely under the updated model. They were about 7 or 8 when the change happened. I really think they’re just the spear-tip of what is hopefully a Golden Generation coming up. Kids like Pomykal, Sargent, and Weah are gonna get their chance with the USMNT after this Gold Cup, and more will come into the team soon.
The kids coming of age now are essentially the first batch of kids who have developed entirely through the post-2006 Development Academy system and/or MLS academies. MLS teams are pumping more money than ever before into their academies and scouting infrastructure. Five years ago, FC Dallas was the only great academy in the league; now several other teams are also developing lots of players. Even some USL teams are developing their own players now. And we now have a much better environment for young players to get competitive minutes against pros with the USL’s growth.
France had probably the best team at the U20 World Cup, and we beat them without it being a fluke. I don’t think it’s a fluke that we’re the only country to make the quarterfinals of the last three U20 World Cups. We’ve got a long ways to go still, but we’re definitely getting much better at developing talent than we were with the pre-2006 system.
The reason our talent pool sucks now is because our lost generation left a massive hole in what should be the core of the team. That group of players developed mostly in the pre-DA system we had prior to the 2006 reforms. It’s shocking how bad our crops of players were from birth years ‘90 to about ‘97. DeAndre Yedlin is probably the best of that bunch.
We made huge changes to our player development model in 2006 to be more in line with UEFA standard, and I think we’re just now starting to see the products of that change. The kids Pulisic, Adams, and McKennie’s age are basically the first “batch” of talents that developed entirely under the updated model. They were about 7 or 8 when the change happened. I really think they’re just the spear-tip of what is hopefully a Golden Generation coming up. Kids like Pomykal, Sargent, and Weah are gonna get their chance with the USMNT after this Gold Cup, and more will come into the team soon.
The kids coming of age now are essentially the first batch of kids who have developed entirely through the post-2006 Development Academy system and/or MLS academies. MLS teams are pumping more money than ever before into their academies and scouting infrastructure. Five years ago, FC Dallas was the only great academy in the league; now several other teams are also developing lots of players. Even some USL teams are developing their own players now. And we now have a much better environment for young players to get competitive minutes against pros with the USL’s growth.
France had probably the best team at the U20 World Cup, and we beat them without it being a fluke. I don’t think it’s a fluke that we’re the only country to make the quarterfinals of the last three U20 World Cups. We’ve got a long ways to go still, but we’re definitely getting much better at developing talent than we were with the pre-2006 system.
The reason our talent pool sucks now is because our lost generation left a massive hole in what should be the core of the team. That group of players developed mostly in the pre-DA system we had prior to the 2006 reforms. It’s shocking how bad our crops of players were from birth years ‘90 to about ‘97. DeAndre Yedlin is probably the best of that bunch.
Posted on 7/2/19 at 8:49 am to Broski
quote:
we may have caught lightening in a bottle in 2002, but it can't be stated enough that we made a World Cup quarterfinals and we did it by outplaying and beating a top 5 team, drawing with the hosts, dominating our most hated rival, and getting fricked by a ref in an evenly matched game with the team that made the finals.
We did all of that with foreign trained players
FIFY
While I admire your enthusiasm, our U-20 squad has a lot of MLS contracts. In short, the MLS isn't exactly a positive for our national team imho. While the play on the field is better than in the past, it is still on the poor side. I am told repeatedly about "how much better" the level of play is, and I just don't see it. Atlanta was pretty skilled, but they lost their better guys (hispanic) to Europe. Look at our national team. Ask yourself "who are our best players and where were they trained?" I mean, Michael Bradley is still the crux of our midfield. Yes, we lose our best athletes to other sports, but we still have athletic players. The issue is training and mindset. Technical ability does not equate to dribbling. That aspect should be a small aspect of the game (and primarily used in the attacking third).
My take for improvment is to focus on:
1. Communication
2. Movement off of the ball
3. Keeping your head up when dribbling
4. Letting the ball do the work
5. Turning/passing out of pressure
6. Shooting outide the 18 (we seem to want the pefect shot and sometimes never get a shot off as a result...
Think of the Wayne Gretsky quote.
These are simple concepts, but then again...the game is beautiful in its simplicity.
I feel #'s 2,3, and 5 are major issues for us in this country.
Just my .02
Posted on 7/2/19 at 9:14 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
1. Communication
2. Movement off of the ball
3. Keeping your head up when dribbling
4. Letting the ball do the work
5. Turning/passing out of pressure
Basically the things I tell my five year old when we are playing in the back yard.
Posted on 7/2/19 at 11:49 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
The issue is training and mindset. Technical ability does not equate to dribbling. That aspect should be a small aspect of the game (and primarily used in the attacking third).
My take for improvment is to focus on:
1. Communication
2. Movement off of the ball
3. Keeping your head up when dribbling
4. Letting the ball do the work
5. Turning/passing out of pressure
6. Shooting outide the 18 (we seem to want the pefect shot and sometimes never get a shot off as a result...
Think of the Wayne Gretsky quote.
These are simple concepts, but then again...the game is beautiful in its simplicity.
I feel #'s 2,3, and 5 are major issues for us in this country.
Just my .02
Somebody gets it.
Posted on 7/2/19 at 12:00 pm to SoulGlo
Lots of people get it, but this has to be done at the USSF level.
We have plenty of evidence to show how to become a soccer powerhouse. It always starts from the organization running the sport in the country. From the French FA's decision to reorganize their entire youth structure, centered around 12 academies built in each region of the country, to Germany's decision in 2000 to require clubs to have their own youth academy in order to be members of the top 2 leagues, to Iceland's novel system, to Belgium's reorganization after Euro 2000. Spain's success started when its FA realized that they had to play a certain way, after the defeat to France in 2006. The evidence is overwhelming that it has to be an organizational effort. The USSF has to reform itself and subsequently lead the reform in the country. Without that reform and leadership, this discussion is pointless.
We have plenty of evidence to show how to become a soccer powerhouse. It always starts from the organization running the sport in the country. From the French FA's decision to reorganize their entire youth structure, centered around 12 academies built in each region of the country, to Germany's decision in 2000 to require clubs to have their own youth academy in order to be members of the top 2 leagues, to Iceland's novel system, to Belgium's reorganization after Euro 2000. Spain's success started when its FA realized that they had to play a certain way, after the defeat to France in 2006. The evidence is overwhelming that it has to be an organizational effort. The USSF has to reform itself and subsequently lead the reform in the country. Without that reform and leadership, this discussion is pointless.
Posted on 7/2/19 at 12:46 pm to Broski
quote:
we may have caught lightening in a bottle in 2002, but it can't be stated enough that we made a World Cup quarterfinals and we did it by outplaying and beating a top 5 team, drawing with the hosts, dominating our most hated rival, and getting fricked by a ref in an evenly matched game with the team that made the finals.
We did all of that with a non-existent youth system and a domestic league that was less than a decade old.
This idea that we have no shot to compete is so dumb on so many levels. Despite how complacent, backwards and corrupt the top of the USSF is, you can't ignore that our youth development is churning out some legit talent for the upcoming generation. I mean, look at what we did against France in the U-20 World Cup. We've cried wolf many times when it comes to this, but I really feel like our reckoning is coming with our first true golden generation led by Pulisic and Adams, with guys like McKennie, Weah, Pomykal, Sargent all coming along. That is the first batch of our post-IMG/Bradenton youth system. That is a pretty fricking great way to open it.
Man, I agree with so much of this. I would also add that I think MLS doesn't need to ever become an elite league. Brazil is terrific without a top tier domestic league, but that's because their best players go off to Europe to develop. The MLS can be a spare parts league for the USMNT, providing subs and depth like, say, the Swedes or even Portugal uses their domestic league, but our core needs to go overseas before USSF screws them up.
And it's amazing how many of our best players are 21 and under. Pulisic, Adams, and McKennie is our midfield RIGHT NOW, and they are all 20. They also all played in German academies.
Right now, we're in the process of shuffling the wasted generation between Donovan/Dempsey and the current U-20 stars off the roster. But I'm not against letting them play right now just to see what we have and if there are any gems who could contribute going forward (Boyd? Lima?). Let the real talent play the U-20 WC instead of the Gold Cup save the guys who have already graduated. Even Sargent, who should be on the Gold Cup team, is 19. Giovanni Reyna is only 17.
The future is brighter than we think. Then again, the USSF could screw anything up.
Posted on 7/2/19 at 12:51 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
We did all of that with foreign trained players
Well that's just a straight up lie.
Of that 2002 World Cup squad, Donovan and Beasley were IMG Academy, Llamosa, Stewart and Regie (who didn't play a single minute) came up through Euro youth academies.
The rest of the roster played college.
Posted on 7/3/19 at 6:49 am to SoulGlo
Preach
Posted on 7/3/19 at 7:08 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
While I admire your enthusiasm, our U-20 squad has a lot of MLS contracts. In short, the MLS isn't exactly a positive for our national team imho.
It still amazes me that some people hold this point of view. It’s absolutely a net positive, and has been since its inception.
Posted on 7/3/19 at 7:13 am to Baloo
quote:
Pulisic, Adams, and McKennie is our midfield RIGHT NOW, and they are all 20. They also all played in German academies.
Pulisic had a relatively short stay in the German academy system and was mostly developed by his Pennsylvania club team. McKennie was at FC Dallas before moving to Schalke. Adams never stepped foot in a German academy.
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