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re: Would you pardon Edward Snowden? Chealsea Manning?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:20 pm to Wtodd
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:20 pm to Wtodd
Because the government says it's seriously classified? Why would you believe a word they say? Clapper and the NSA told you they weren't spying on you before the Snowden leaks.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:21 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
Which is why those documents weren't dumped like Wikileaks. He intentionally sought out Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras and Barton Gellman to vet the documents and publish only what was newsworthy and that would not endanger lives.
Of course, we have absolutely no clue which states or intelligence agencies the entirety (or unreleased portions of) the material was exposed to.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:22 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
Because the government says it's seriously classified? Why would you believe a word they say? Clapper and the NSA told you they weren't spying on you before the Snowden leaks.
The flip side is that you want me to believe what Greenwald and Poitras say?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:23 pm to Pettifogger
WikiLeaks
35m35 minutes ago
WikiLeaks ?@wikileaks
Obama may grant Manning clemency tomorrow. What happened to Manning?
35m35 minutes ago
WikiLeaks ?@wikileaks
Obama may grant Manning clemency tomorrow. What happened to Manning?
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:25 pm to Pettifogger
quote:I'll repeat what I've said earlier: if infosec at the NSA was so shitty that any IT janitor could do what Snowden did then every relevant intelligence agency already had it.
Of course, we have absolutely no clue which states or intelligence agencies the entirety (or unreleased portions of) the material was exposed to.
This post was edited on 1/17/17 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:25 pm to jdd48
quote:
You would risk badly alienating the entire intelligence apparatus
You mean the same intelligence apparatus who embarked on the largest disinformation campaign in American presidential history to try and delegitimize the election of Trump. Most conservatives on here rightly don't believe a word the intelligence community says about the Russian hacking, yet they eat up every word these same people say about Snowden and Manning.
Of course the intelligence community hated these two. If the American people were actually informed of the depth of our surveillance apparatus they might rein it in, which means less money and power for those in the NSA and CIA.
This post was edited on 1/17/17 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:29 pm to Pettifogger
As opposed to James Clapper? He already committed perjury in front of Congress. And the CIA? Their job is to create propaganda, lie and disinform. And nobody has yet to question the veracity of anything Greenwald and Poitras have written to date.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:29 pm to goofball
quote:
Would you pardon Edward Snowden?
Yes, and would probably give him a medal.
quote:
Chealsea Manning?
No way no how. She can rot in prison.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:30 pm to goofball
I would create an incredibly convoluted scenario where the Batman could only save one of them while the other would die and let the Batman impose his own morality on the situation. Then, just to spice it up, I would give the Batman bad information on which person was in which location to undermine his morality choice.
This post was edited on 1/17/17 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:32 pm to goofball
I think manning has suffered enough. Being confined to solitary confinement and ridiculed at a national level is enough to disuade others. Keeping manning in jail for the rest of her life would be too much. Snowden should be allowed to come home with a guarantee that he will only be looking at 2-5 years probation.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:35 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
As opposed to James Clapper? He already committed perjury in front of Congress. And the CIA? Their job is to create propaganda, lie and disinform. And nobody has yet to question the veracity of anything Greenwald and Poitras have written to date.
I don't like Clapper, I do agree with him on some things re: Trump. Your argument begins with the premise CIA having just completed a huge intelligence operation to discredit Trump, so let's not act as though you're approaching this from a point of fairness.
And I question the shite out of a ton of stuff Greenwald has written. There are plenty of articles where I think GG makes a valid point, but he's a radical ideologue, so I'm certainly not going to accept his often unverifiable accounts about what did/didn't happen with regard to Snowden
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:35 pm to goofball
Hell no. Both should have already been overcome by remorse in a cell or had a little accident shortly after release.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 12:59 pm to goofball
No way would I pardon Manning, public servants and the military particularly are held to a higher standard.
Snowden on the other handed gathered his data when he was a private citizen. However, I wish that Snowden had done things in America rather than going to China/Russia . With that in mind, I do not think I would pardon him, maybe try to set him up in a more friendly country that would not have to extradite(maybe UAE, Taiwan, Ukraine). If I felt that the next admin may go after him then potentially pardon his high crimes but not all. He must pay a price for his actions, and we cannot set a precedent that allows government intel agents to go rogue. I just think that he also should get some credit for exposing unconstitutional activity by the US government.
Snowden on the other handed gathered his data when he was a private citizen. However, I wish that Snowden had done things in America rather than going to China/Russia . With that in mind, I do not think I would pardon him, maybe try to set him up in a more friendly country that would not have to extradite(maybe UAE, Taiwan, Ukraine). If I felt that the next admin may go after him then potentially pardon his high crimes but not all. He must pay a price for his actions, and we cannot set a precedent that allows government intel agents to go rogue. I just think that he also should get some credit for exposing unconstitutional activity by the US government.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 1:23 pm to goofball
Yes, but I'd also rewrite the laws to protect government whisteblowers as well.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 1:35 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:great post
You mean the same intelligence apparatus who embarked on the largest disinformation campaign in American presidential history to try and delegitimize the election of Trump. Most conservatives on here rightly don't believe a word the intelligence community says about the Russian hacking, yet they eat up every word these same people say about Snowden and Manning.
Of course the intelligence community hated these two. If the American people were actually informed of the depth of our surveillance apparatus they might rein it in, which means less money and power for those in the NSA and CIA.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 1:36 pm to goofball
quote:I would work out a deal to have him come home with guarantee of minimal punishment.
Would you pardon Edward Snowden?
quote:I would commute the sentence to some remaining time in a halfway house or something.
Chelsea Manning
This post was edited on 1/17/17 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 1/17/17 at 1:48 pm to goofball
As the corporate military industrial complex continues to incrementally crack down on our cherished freedoms, if he is not pardoned or cut a deal, our children will be left to wonder where are the Edward Snowdens of yesteryear.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 1:49 pm to goofball
Yes I would pardon Manning and Snowden, but Manning only on the condition she move out of the country.
I think they had good motives and that the government is super invested in keeping information from us that we need to have in order to act with the best information. It is almost as bad as my HOA.
I think they had good motives and that the government is super invested in keeping information from us that we need to have in order to act with the best information. It is almost as bad as my HOA.
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