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re: Why would Pelosi visit any foreign country?
Posted on 1/18/19 at 11:56 am to Centinel
Posted on 1/18/19 at 11:56 am to Centinel
quote:arse ache.
Try being on the other end of one of those CODEL trips.
Had to move a shite ton of people out of KMCC at Ramstein, they demanded one entire floor for their entourage, it's too inconvenient to get on an elevator.
This post was edited on 1/18/19 at 11:58 am
0
Posted on 1/18/19 at 11:57 am to The Maj
quote:
Neither side should travel, unless requested to do so by POTUS or the State Department.
Their oversight authority does not come from the Executive Branch.
quote:
Three reasons for a CODEL:
1. Opposition party trying to muddy the waters or get their name out there.
2. Boondoggle
3. Both 1 and 2
No, that is the reason for THIS codel. I'm not disputing that. However categorically saying that they are all useless political stunts is just incorrect.
The overwhelming number of them are not even publicized, because they go somewhere quietly and come back home. This situation with Pelosi is indicative of the current political climate, not all congressional trips
Posted on 1/18/19 at 11:58 am to oogabooga68
quote:
oes she use friends, family and grandchildren as advisors?
She has a habit of dragging a lot of non-essential people along on these trips.
Ok, then punish that. But that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about codels in general, which are not inherently improper
Posted on 1/18/19 at 11:59 am to Strannix
I don't mind if she goes abroad, but why does she need to go to Afghanistan to get a Sitrep from the commanders?
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:00 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Ok, then punish that. But that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about codels in general, which are not inherently improper
The first step in punishing that is exposing that.
President Trump counter-punched Pelosi and is ahem...forcing us to have a conversation.
That conversation is revealing the monumental abuse by Speaker Lugosi as it concerns these "important" jaunts overseas.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:02 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
The first step in punishing that is exposing that.
President Trump counter-punched Pelosi and is ahem...forcing us to have a conversation.
That conversation is revealing the monumental abuse by Speaker Lugosi as it concerns these "important" jaunts overseas.
All of that is fine, and I agree. I'm not talking about any of that. The fact that the process has been abused is not automatically indicative that the entire process is worthless or improper. Codels can have a legitimate purpose, it is possible.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:02 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Congressmen go overseas on this stuff all the time. Hell at the end of the day Congress has the true say on going to war. Allocation of funds for foreign aid. Other stuff. So I’m not sure you’re right.
A few things
1) That doesn't require them to go over seas to vote. That is done in the capital
2) Ambassadors are the ones whose job is to provide direct face to face contact and be liaisons to foreign heads of state (other than the president).
3) It should be up to the president to make the argument to congress when it comes to votes of foreign issues/funds. If he can convince them, they vote for it. If not, they shouldn't. It is not in their responsibilities to make arguments for other countries. They were voted in to represent people in this country.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:03 pm to Indefatigable
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:04 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:no, Strannix really does envision an Imperial presidency, in which the legislative branch has no role whatsoever in foreign affairs.
Congressmen go overseas on this stuff all the time. Hell at the end of the day Congress has the true say on going to war. Allocation of funds for foreign aid. Other stuff. So I’m not sure you’re right.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:05 pm to Strannix
She was going to Afghanistan to visit the troops. I hear tell she is very popular with our enlisted men and women.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:05 pm to notsince98
quote:
It should be up to the president to make the argument to congress when it comes to votes of foreign issues/funds. If he can convince them, they vote for it. If not, they shouldn't. It is not in their responsibilities to make arguments for other countries. They were voted in to represent people in this country
Once again, Congress's authority is not derived from the Executive Branch, and they are not going to rely purely on the Executive Branch to make any decisions. It is called independent oversight and it exists for a reason. That is their job. What do you think all of the committees and sub committees exist for, and do all of the time?
They do not go over there and communicate at the head of state level.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:05 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
useless political stunts is just incorrect.
Like I said, I agree with them when they are requested by State or POTUS or are included with one of their trips... Otherwise, they are useless boondoggles...
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:07 pm to Strannix
quote:
Why would Pelosi visit any foreign country?
Easy answer: To undermine Trump. That's the entire focus of the Democratic Party.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:07 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
They do not go over there and communicate at the head of state level.
Didn't Pelosi go to Syria a few years ago and meet with Assad? There have been plenty of examples of both sides doing that kind of stuff and in the process fumbling part of the diplomatic process...
So, you would be wrong again...
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:07 pm to Indefatigable
quote:get out of here, with your actual understanding of government
It would be way more costly to have the entire foreign service wing of the State Department flying home every couple of years for various subcommittee hearings.
Congress oversees the funding for all of this stuff. I do not see how it is outrageous for them to occasionally go over there and take measure of the situation. Their oversight is independent of the Executive branch, on purpose.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:09 pm to The Maj
quote:
So how many qualify as "not all that common"?
How many of those include Congressional leadership?
I'll admit that number is higher than i would like it to be, and probably could be reduced. And the method of funding them needs to be addressed.
I have zero problem with criticizing the amount of money they spend on accomodations, and scrutinizing their actual purposes.
What I am rejecting is the categorical statement that all of them are useless and that Congress should rely purely on the State Department for determinations regarding foreign policy. Just because its being abused does not mean that its incapable of serving a purpose.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:10 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Codels can have a legitimate purpose, it is possible.
Understood, but given Pelosi's history, there is nothing to suggest her visit is on the up and up other than her "word" and her word is worth a sack of monkey crap.
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:11 pm to The Maj
quote:
Didn't Pelosi go to Syria a few years ago and meet with Assad?
Did she do so without any executive officials present? That was my original contention, that they generally don't conduct meetings at the head of state level without executive officials, or the chief of mission in the country where they are, present.
I can almost promise that any meeting Pelosi had with Assad included a State or Defense Department official. I would be shocked if it didnt.
This post was edited on 1/18/19 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 1/18/19 at 12:13 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
Understood, but given Pelosi's history, there is nothing to suggest her visit is on the up and up other than her "word" and her word is worth a sack of monkey crap.
I disagree with none of thatPosted on 1/18/19 at 12:13 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
How many of those include Congressional leadership?
They were all classified as including a member of congress, so I ask you again: HOW MANY QUALIFY AS NOT ALL THAT COMMON?
You should also be VERY concerned that private entities are allowed to fund trips for congressional delegations on these trips as well...
They accomplish very little that could not be accomplished in a briefing through secure teleconference... VERY LITTLE...
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