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re: Why many "intellectuals" become complete idiots

Posted on 5/31/25 at 9:02 am to
Posted by SouthEasternKaiju
SouthEast... you figure it out
Member since Aug 2021
41695 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 9:02 am to
I see this everyday.

Folks thinking they’re mimicking Elon but instead they’re making Robert MacNamara mistakes.

Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
45784 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 9:50 am to
Someone said economists are people who see something work in practice, and then try to see if it can be made to work in theory.
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
5509 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 11:24 am to
quote:

Yes - I like the related "the menu is not the meal" (or you'll sometimes hear "the map is not the territory"), getting at a similar idea. You can over-subscribe to an abstraction which helps in one context but over-clarifies in another. In political discussion the map/menu is generally ideology. Some of the best thinkers tend to resist totalizing systems, though.


I like that those, humans can't model the entire world at more than a vague level of fidelity even when attempting formal modeling.

To reference Lt. Gen. William B. Bunker (who Donald Rumsfeld inherited)," there are the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns."

People should be willing to accept when their model is breaking down, but as in the OP, there does become an intransigence of "my model works, it's the data that is broken".
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
124737 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 11:30 am to
quote:

there does become an intransigence of "my model works, it's the data that is broken".


Many times, the models are the engine that drives the earnings/system that powers the experts’ lives.

The intransigence is in part a result of their vested interest in their models being correct.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135104 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 11:48 am to
quote:

sorry jethro "converse" means to participate in a conversation.
Well yes, yes it does mean "to participate in a conversation." That reflects its use as a verb.

Then again, as the song goes:
"There's a sign on the wall, but she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings
"

LINK ]

Posted by La Place Mike
West Florida Republic
Member since Jan 2004
30857 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

sorry jethro "converse" means to participate in a conversation.


I am ruminating over the pros and cons of this statement but I really prefer not to be contrary.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170349 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 12:35 pm to
I watched that the other day. He has a lot of solid content
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
7521 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

We exalt the opinions of specialists even in areas in which they aren’t specialists (see Bill Gates and diseases).


That's a great point.
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
5509 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

Many times, the models are the engine that drives the earnings/system that powers the experts’ lives.

The intransigence is in part a result of their vested interest in their models being correct.


Agreed, I've seen this be true in a number of cases.

Would you rather change your wrong decision to a right one, knowing that your leadership will lose confidence in your expertise.

Or push ahead and try to make a wrong decision close enough until you can blame someone else for it failing...

#2 is the popular choice by far.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135104 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:02 pm to
Posted by Jimmy Russel
Member since Nov 2021
732 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:08 pm to
You forgot to credit the quote to the GOAT -- James Spann
Posted by Sofaking2
Member since Apr 2023
18657 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:10 pm to
My PhD(in a STEM field) father always told me don’t confuse education with intelligence. His best friends were Cajuns who could fix anything and had a multitude of trade skills. He favored the company of those kinds of people over these “intellectuals” who love themselves.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170349 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:17 pm to
quote:


We exalt the opinions of specialists even in areas in which they aren’t specialists (see Bill Gates and diseases).

I think this applies to people like Musk also. Being a great business person doesn't really mean we should blindly trust his political stances. If anything we should question his motivations.
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
5509 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

You forgot to credit the quote to the GOAT -- James Spann


He was quoting George Box, though the thought has been around longer.
This post was edited on 5/31/25 at 1:30 pm
Posted by redneck hippie
Oklahoma
Member since Dec 2008
6266 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

The video explores the phenomenon how a huge number of high IQ, highly educated individuals somehow become complete idiots.


Honestly, this sounds like something dumb people say
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
5509 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

My PhD(in a STEM field) father always told me don’t confuse education with intelligence. His best friends were Cajuns who could fix anything and had a multitude of trade skills. He favored the company of those kinds of people over these “intellectuals” who love themselves.

Your father was a wise man.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170349 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

Honestly, this sounds like something dumb people say

It's counter intuitive but it makes sense if you actually watch it. The population bomb thing is a perfect example of someone continuing to believe their own bullshite theories in the face of reality proving them completely wrong.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135104 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

doesn't really mean we should blindly trust his political stances
Blind trust in anything political is really inexcusable. The appeal in Musk is not his viewpoint(s) per se, but rather in the underpinning logic.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170349 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:55 pm to
I don't have a big issue with Musk. I just think we should keep a close eye on people who might have self serving interests. A good portion of his wealth comes from the federal government. It would be naive to think that he might have some self serving interests.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135104 posts
Posted on 5/31/25 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

I just think we should keep a close eye on people who might have self serving interests
For sure.

E.g., He pivots from logic and rationale to obvious talking points and rote when he gets dragged into climate change discussions. Climate change and weather religion serves purpose for TSLA promotion though.
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