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Message
re: why is it so important to dems that it be legal to murder the unborn
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:59 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:59 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
More realistically, many simply don't buy into someone telling them what to do with their own bodies. That's something that should be supported.
I would argue this is a lazy trope propagated by those who actually favor the act of abortion itself for political means (empowerment of females over men). "White men are trying to control your body." We don't give a shite about your body or controlling what you do with it. This isn't Griswold. We're not angry that you can make decisions over reproduction because of our misguided prurient curiosity. It's not 1930. Take birth control. Get plastic surgery to look like a fish. Become a man for all we care.
To the extent we're angry, it's because rather than actually take advantage of hard-fought progress, some will engage in the regressive act of physically destroying a human fetus as a means of convenience. Actual progress is knowing precisely how procreation works, how birth control works, and how to avoid pregnancy with an extremely high degree of success. Abortion in lieu of that is, quite bluntly, a barbaric alternative. For the record, I don't walk around angry with women who have abortions. They're people, probably in moments of strife, who take advantage of the (poor) option that we've preached to them is a completely normal and not-at-all problematic route to take.
2
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:59 pm to Big12fan
quote:
DawgLife
Short memory?
quote:
However, you have no problem with the abortion industry making billions off murdering children, right? Just so it isn't foreign children.
One more question. You say the United States is complicit in killing children in Yemen because we sold the Saudis weapons they are using to bomb the Yemeni people.
Do you consider people who support abortion complicit in the killing of unborn children?
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:01 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I would argue this is a lazy trope propagated by those who actually favor the act of abortion itself for political means (empowerment of females over men). "White men are trying to control your body." We don't give a shite about your body or controlling what you do with it. This isn't Griswold. We're not angry that you can make decisions over reproduction because of our misguided prurient curiosity. It's not 1930. Take birth control. Get plastic surgery to look like a fish. Become a man for all we care. To the extent we're angry, it's because rather than actually take advantage of hard-fought progress, some will engage in the regressive act of physically destroying a human fetus as a means of convenience. Actual progress is knowing precisely how procreation works, how birth control works, and how to avoid pregnancy with an extremely high degree of success. Abortion in lieu of that is, quite bluntly, a barbaric alternative. For the record, I don't walk around angry with women who have abortions. They're people, probably in moments of strife, who take advantage of the (poor) option that we've preached to them is a completely normal and not-at-all problematic route to take.
Literally the best answer I have ever seen on this topic
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:01 pm to DawgsLife
It is a fair point and I understand the realities of life after birth. I just want the option in that situation because honestly I’ll have no clue how I’ll feel if I’m ever put in that situation.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:03 pm to Volatile
quote:
Current law states that a woman’s right to get an abortion ends when the fetus becomes able to live outside the womb. Which is around 23 to 24 weeks.
That will continue to drop as medical science progresses.
Problem with that? The baby may not be able to live outside the female body at that point. However, when a baby is born he cannot survive on its own, either. So, should abortion doctors have the right to kill a baby after it is born, since it can't survive outside the womb on its own?
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:04 pm to BeeFense5
quote:
Literally the best answer I have ever seen on this topic
And the word murder doesn’t appear even once. Take note, fellow pro-lifers.
Though I would disagree over “become a man for all we care.”
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:05 pm to IrishTiger89
quote:
It is a fair point and I understand the realities of life after birth. I just want the option in that situation because honestly I’ll have no clue how I’ll feel if I’m ever put in that situation.
I understand your point perfectly...and your feelings. It's a scary thought. A very good friend of mine has a daughter born with Down's Syndrome. I can assure you they wouldn't trade her for anything in the world. They will probably have her with them for as long as they live, though, and it is a huge responsibility.
It's not easy, no doubt, so I understand your feelings.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:06 pm to uway
quote:
Though I would disagree over “become a man for all we care.”
I don't think the ones considering that will be missed by us, but I understand the objection in theory
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:11 pm to VOR
quote:
They don’t want the government interfering with the health decisions made by a woman and her doctor. It’s not that hard to understand
If it's all about decisions with your own body then why do the same people that will cry and shout the loudest about this try and impose extremely high sugar and tobacco taxes "because they're bad for you?"
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:25 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Do you consider people who support abortion complicit in the killing of unborn children?
The US government is complicit. My support or not has no bearing on whether someone get an abortion.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:29 pm to L1C4
Dear OP
by definition murder can never be illegal.
You're welcome.
by definition murder can never be illegal.
You're welcome.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:36 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Honest question. If the baby has a heart beat, eyes, brain activity...would you consider it a baby? And if you do, would you consider it murder to kill it?
Well, there are various stages in the development of a fetus and that is why I think the laws have been modified to limit when an abortion is legal. So the question is when does a fetus become a person, since murder is willingly killing a person. Using those laws as guidelines the answer is no and yes. I don't think in absolute terms most of the time.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:44 pm to Big12fan
quote:
The US government is complicit. My support or not has no bearing on whether someone get an abortion.
Well, I would argue otherwise since we vote for our representatives and Presidents. I mean, most of them, if not all, would vote whichever way polls say the American public thinks. If the majority of the American public wanted to do away with abortion it would be outlawed. My opinion, but I think it is based on provable criteria. Typically reps from liberal constituencies vote one way and reps from conservative constituencies vote the opposite.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:47 pm to Big12fan
quote:
Well, there are various stages in the development of a fetus and that is why I think the laws have been modified to limit when an abortion is legal. So the question is when does a fetus become a person, since murder is willingly killing a person. Using those laws as guidelines the answer is no and yes. I don't think in absolute terms most of the time.
Fair enough. Why do you think the police will charge someone with a double homicide if they kill a pregnant woman, yet allow a fetus (baby) at the same stage be aborted? Don't you think that is a contradiction?
Anyway, I have to go for now, but will try to find the thread when I get back. (Although, I may be gone for the rest of the night) Enjoyed our discussion, and i hope we both learned something from the other!
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:52 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:should have kept those legs closed
Bc its about the women, the people who should matter in all of this.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:53 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Well, I would argue otherwise since we vote for our representatives and Presidents. I mean, most of them, if not all, would vote whichever way polls say the American public thinks. If the majority of the American public wanted to do away with abortion it would be outlawed. My opinion, but I think it is based on provable criteria. Typically reps from liberal constituencies vote one way and reps from conservative constituencies vote the opposite.
The Supreme Court pretty much decided that issue with the exception of the restrictions added by some states. I live in Texas where almost all state officials are very conservative and I don't recall ever considering abortion as an issue that would decide my vote. As a matter of fact, I've voted for people who are anti-abortion. Abortion is just one issue. Many factors go into making a decision on a candidate. After you vote, you minuscule means of control is gone.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:54 pm to L1C4
quote:Why is it so important to you to be dishonest?
why is it so important to dems that it be legal to murder the unborn
Posted on 6/28/18 at 2:27 pm to DawgsLife
Drs told my parents my brother would be born severe mental handicaps and yeah he was born and lives to this day with some very significant problems. I just think I should always have the right to make that call with my spouse. I’ve seen special needs break a lot of people financially and destroy a lot of marriages due to my mom’s career in the field.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 2:29 pm to L1C4
Do you know how many minority children would be born to unfit mothers without abortion?
It’s cheaper to fund abortions than welfare
It’s cheaper to fund abortions than welfare
Posted on 6/28/18 at 2:30 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I would argue this is a lazy trope propagated by those who actually favor the act of abortion itself for political means (empowerment of females over men). "White men are trying to control your body." We don't give a shite about your body or controlling what you do with it. This isn't Griswold. We're not angry that you can make decisions over reproduction because of our misguided prurient curiosity. It's not 1930. Take birth control. Get plastic surgery to look like a fish. Become a man for all we care.
Maybe, but you'd lose. You're doing nothing more than making generalizations based on the loudest minority. It's really all you've done so far. Again, I get that it's easy and effective with this audience, but it's still lazy.
quote:
To the extent we're angry, it's because rather than actually take advantage of hard-fought progress, some will engage in the regressive act of physically destroying a human fetus as a means of convenience. Actual progress is knowing precisely how procreation works, how birth control works, and how to avoid pregnancy with an extremely high degree of success. Abortion in lieu of that is, quite bluntly, a barbaric alternative. For the record, I don't walk around angry with women who have abortions. They're people, probably in moments of strife, who take advantage of the (poor) option that we've preached to them is a completely normal and not-at-all problematic route to take.
That's something that needs to be addressed from one direction, then, if that's really the goal. We both know, I think, that it isn't. You have hard extremes who are so binary in their view of the issue that we won't ever get to a point where something useful is accomplished. Mix in a bit of religion, and both 'sides' lose their shite.
No one wants to address the underlying issues. They'd rather throw insults at the other side. In the middle of that, you have more reasonable people who either are mostly apathetic to abortion or they don't know the answer and are able to admit that.
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