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re: Why do liberals get so upset over abortion?
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:32 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:32 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Primarily, I think that the vesting of ANY legal right should be contingent upon the beneficiary being a sapient organism.
So some humans should never have rights and some humans can suffer an injury in which they lose all rights?
This is just wrong on so many levels to me. Those without cognitive abilities should and thankfully do have rights.
0
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:32 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
Thankfully not discriminatory in any problematic way. Really dodged a bullet on that one.
I get it. You’re frustrated now that your discrimination is showing. You’re justifying it. Or at least you’re trying.
All society asks is that you do better.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:32 pm to Tigers0918
quote:
Second major part is I believe a woman should be able to do what she wants with her body. I don't think you or I should be forced to give blood or an organ to save some ones life and a woman should not be forced to user her body for a fetus.
Are we going to be so disingenuous to ignore the fact that sex is literally designed for reproduction? And that any engagement in it carries the possibility of your OWN offspring forming because of it? When does personal accountability enter the picture at all?
Why are we acting like these babies are some foreign alien invader that jumps into female bodies against the host’s will?? They are the mother’s own child, created by an action they decided to engage in.
And look, I’m not saying that sex is only for reproduction purposes in society today, but it’s a biological reality that doesn’t care how you feel. We all need to take this into account and be responsible with this knowledge.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:39 pm to brett408
Abortion is an easy topic to engage their welfare/government assistance base.
Any idiot can have an opinion and people feel involved and important when they can state an opinion and participate in a discussion.
Abortion is an easy one, as any opinion is arguable and valid with even a basic yes or no answer.
Same as Gun Control.
A person with an IQ of 90 can have the same opinion as a Harvard professor on CNN. It makes them feel smart on par with an intellectual.
Any idiot can have an opinion and people feel involved and important when they can state an opinion and participate in a discussion.
Abortion is an easy one, as any opinion is arguable and valid with even a basic yes or no answer.
Same as Gun Control.
A person with an IQ of 90 can have the same opinion as a Harvard professor on CNN. It makes them feel smart on par with an intellectual.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:40 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If not, you have to acknowledge the fact that pregnancy hinders women's professional and economic outlook.
No I don't
Unplanned pregnancy probably does. Moreover, has female prioritization of career/economic outlook made American women happier? No, the opposite actually. Suicide rates are up. Life satisfaction is down and now less than that of men, a reversal from the 70s. I believe this is particularly true as to white women.
Battling nature is proving rather unfulfilling.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:40 pm to LSUconvert
quote:Let's hear it.
Hey did you know this is completely false?
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:42 pm to Sev09
Came back to post... you don't have to be religious to know right from wrong. I haven't been to church since we got married almost 20 years ago. Our kids HAVE NEVER BEEN TO CHURCH. I don't believe in supernatural things. I just don't.
I, however, believe in the "miracle" and sanctity of life. It's a gift, whether from God or cosmic biological lottery. It's our freaking duty to protect the vulnerable. How can any human see and hear a heartbeat, and think anything other than...that's a freaking MIRACLE, that is a part of me, and I will die to protect it.
I, however, believe in the "miracle" and sanctity of life. It's a gift, whether from God or cosmic biological lottery. It's our freaking duty to protect the vulnerable. How can any human see and hear a heartbeat, and think anything other than...that's a freaking MIRACLE, that is a part of me, and I will die to protect it.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:43 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Unplanned pregnancy probably does.
No. Pregnancy does. Full stop.
quote:
Moreover, has female prioritization of career/economic outlook made American women happier? No, the opposite actually.
That is irrelevant to this discussion. You're projecting second level morality here.
It's also not really a good argument, b/c you're confirming all the fears about using pregnancy to entrap women, whether you realize it or not.
Pure morality is a much better angle.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:47 pm to Tigers0918
quote:
I could use the old analogy of say you wake up one day and you are in a hospital and are being used in some way to save another persons life. It will only take a day and both of you will be perfectly great afterwards. If you unplug yourself, that person will die. Should you be allowed to unplug? Absolutely even though it will kill someone else.
Did you wake up in the hospital because you fricked someone, knowing it could land you in the hospital?
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:53 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
AggieHank86
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:56 pm to Wtodd
This (Sanger view of undesirables ), but also it plays into the identity politics (women). That’s 50% of the population right there. The Left think it’s a winning argument, even if they must lie about it.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 12:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No. Pregnancy does. Full stop.
No it doesn't. Any study you can find on this topic is going to fail to adequately account for elective behavior of women, which is the natural consequence of career women having children they prioritize over their work.
However, I very much look forward to noting your reliance on this data the next time you're objecting to a wage disparity study resting on the same evidence and conclusions.
quote:
That is irrelevant to this discussion. You're projecting second level morality here.
It's irrelevant to compellingly undermine the significance of your premise as something worth caring about?
quote:
It's also not really a good argument, b/c you're confirming all the fears about using pregnancy to entrap women, whether you realize it or not.
"All the fears" that exist only in the wild imaginations of Handmaid's Tale adherents that I don't care about? Apologies, but I don't care about the recent phenomenon of women believing they're entrapped by a natural biological function that is inarguably at the core of womanhood.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:02 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
which is the natural consequence of career women having children they prioritize over their work.
quote:
No it doesn't.
You literally just said it doesn't negatively affect economic outcomes and then say, well it's better than they have those decreased outcomes.
quote:
I very much look forward to noting your reliance on this data the next time you're objecting to a wage disparity study resting on the same evidence and conclusions.
The biggest variable in the "wage gap" is pregnancy.
quote:
It's irrelevant to compellingly undermine the significance of your premise as something worth caring about?
The problem is it doesn't. It's just your preferred morality and you assume that's best for all. That's the flaw in your "argument".
quote:
"All the fears" that exist only in the wild imaginations of Handmaid's Tale adherents that I don't care about?
No all the fears from the words you are typing in this thread.
You're arguing that it's better for women to be removed from economic progress to raise children instead.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:07 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
Vaccine mandates and the lefts support of it killed this talking point
Yeah.. this blows their whole "my body" thing to pieces.. That's why no one responds to this discussion point.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:11 pm to BBONDS25
Did you make that just for me? How sweet. Thanks, Barry.
Say
Pea
Ent
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:11 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You're arguing that it's better for women to be removed from economic progress to raise children instead.
Yes.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You literally just said it doesn't negatively affect economic outcomes and then say, well it's better than they have those decreased outcomes.
No I didn't. I said the returns are unfulfilling, which helps to explain why women elect to prioritize family over work.
quote:
The problem is it doesn't. It's just your preferred morality and you assume that's best for all. That's the flaw in your "argument".
Your goal is apparently to treat one voluntary action (getting pregnant) as an obstacle to other voluntary, merit-based outcomes (success in career). But you want to do it without acknowledging the human calculations and choices involved, because once you do the talking point becomes meaningless.
If we told the truth, which is that careerist women will frequently voluntarily take a step back in their work to prioritize their family at some point and thereby stop some degree of upward momentum, and that most find this fulfilling and the right course of action for them, "pregnancy impairs female career success" seems a useless trope - which it is.
What's worse here is that those who use this do so dishonestly, and you know that's the case and you're pushing it anyway for a limited purpose, which is to win the present debate. You know full well that gone are the days where moms who need to breastfeed or take kids to school don't make partner or VP or whatever on account of their motherhood You're in this world, you know it to be a fact. People promoting the fiction of pregnancy as some unmovable obstacle to success do so on fabricated premise that the mean, chauvinist bossman has no tolerance for mothers needing to stay home for a sick kid, which anyone in the professional world knows is a lie. So why are you promoting it?
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:17 pm to Blaeke
quote:
quote:
You're arguing that it's better for women to be removed from economic progress to raise children instead.
Yes.
It's better for men, women and children. Of course, I'm not standing in the way of women seeking to make choices that aren't fulfilling for them, but neither will I pretend it isn't so when even interests invested in the opposite outcome are confused by "The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness"
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:20 pm to AggieHank86
Welcome back.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 1:27 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
well it's better than they have those decreased outcomes.
quote:
I said the returns are unfulfilling
quote:
If we told the truth, which is that careerist women will frequently voluntarily take a step back in their work to prioritize their family at some point and thereby stop some degree of upward momentum, and that most find this fulfilling and the right course of action for them, "pregnancy impairs female career success" seems a useless trope - which it is.
You're literally arguing that pregnancy impairs career success and then mocking the fact that people say that it does.
quote:
People promoting the fiction of pregnancy as some unmovable obstacle to success
Strawman
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