re: Why didn't we use the South Korean approach?

well you don't want to rely on luck with policies that could kill 6-figures of your citizens, but it's a possible lucky situation

but hey no room for optimism, especially with people infected with TDS and/or doomcastingitis

Well, that's a dumb metric given we have 8 times their population...

Also, it's a dumb test in general. What does tests per positive case even mean? To me it sounds like over testing if one in 50 are positive.

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Fauci is considered one of the the - if not THE - foremost U.S. expert on infectious diseases and viral pandemics.

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AND FAUCI RECOMMENDED TRUMP ABIDE BY THE CDC PLAN !

Fauci recommended Trump trust and abide by the CDC plan as did Drs. Scott Gottlieb, Stephen Lindstrom, Nancy Messonnier, Chris Braden, Jeanne Marrazzo, and Robert Redfield. All experts. Most are Obama holdovers. All said the CDC has got this. Everyone of them recommended Trump use the CDC plan which ended up stinking like the shithouse door on a hot tuna boat. That's the point, dimwit!

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Pretty convenient revision of U.S. Government

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LMAO! Don't know if you're willfully ignorant or just regurgitating CNN talking points.

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The CDC is a sub-division of the Health & Human Services (HHS), a cabinet-level department of the current Presidential Administration.

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So is the NIH. Their entire mission statement is to identify,mitigate and protect the US from infections diseases and Fauci has been the head of NIH for almost 40 years.He is the #1 epidemiologist in the US govt.

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Trump worked since day one as President to cut funding and staffing of the CDC. His Administration oversaw:

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He didn't cut anything from the CDC and the global pandemic task force was increased along with their budget under Trump. LINK

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The responsibilities of that office - formerly under the National Security Council - was moved to the HHS' authorities.

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As it should have been in the 1st place and none of those biological experts were let go.

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It's impossible to assess the impact of the 2018 decision to disband the unit, she said. Cameron noted that biological experts remain at the White House

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And this wasn't "bio terrorism"

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The reduction from 47 to 14 American CDC staff at the Beijing CDC Office over the last 2 years, including a major medical epidemiologist expert who was a trainer of Chinese field epidemiologists who were deployed to the epicenter of outbreaks to help track

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And they would've done what exactly? China was continually lying about the outbreak and their own scientist who criticized their response "disappeared" And they still won't let us near Wuhan to investigate We coulda had 100 scientist there and would've done nothing to seem the pandemic.China knowingly allowing international flights out of Wuhan after the pandemic started there.

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“The problem was China, not that we didn’t have CDC people in China,” said Scott McNabb, a former CDC epidemiologist who is now a research professor with Emory University. He pointed to China’s censorship as the main culprit in the spread of the pandemic, which has infected at least 435,470 people worldwide, killed 19,598 and upended the global economy.

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(USAID), the global relief program which had a role in helping China monitor and respond to outbreaks, also shut their Beijing offices on Trump’s watch. Before the closures, each office was staffed by a U.S. official.

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Do you freakin think it would have done anything to help mitigate this Wuhan? China wasn't gonna admit culpability under any circumstances and certainly weren't gonna let us near their irresponsible and wreckless Coronavirus research.

We stopped our own Coronavirus research research under Obama for that very reason. LINK

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If this virus mutates so that it spreads easily through the air, millions could die. "It would go around the globe quickly, and this would result in high morbidity and mortality, disruption of the economy, and, in some cases, the collapse of governments," says Baric.

That's why researchers want to learn as much as they can about MERS. It's a type of virus called a coronavirus, which is the special focus of Baric's lab.

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The Obama administration was concerned about any research that could make the viruses more dangerous, so they wanted to stop and review studies to see if they could make these germs capable of causing more disease or spreading easily through the air.

Officials with the National Institutes of Health say that about 18 grants, contracts and planned research projects fall under the new ban. They say waivers can be obtained for research that's critical for public health, though it's not clear exactly how long that will take.

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The most effective plans have come from state leadership.

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From who? Cuomo? Are you freakin kidding me? NYC is an unmittigated disaster and woulda been far worse had the feds not got involved.

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Trump has been left to being effectively some idiot on the sidelines eating popcorn and cheering

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So why were Newsome and Cuomo praising his response team and his efforts?

Fauci is a modern day George McClellan.

Trump isn't the first CIC to get let down by one of his commanders.

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no no no you don't understand

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Right.

"Fauci is considered one of the the - if not THE - foremost U.S. expert on infectious diseases and viral pandemics." Fauci's plan sucked. . . . . . It's Trump's fault.

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And every preventative process you just described, has absolutely NOTHING to do with what methods South Korea actually used, against COVID-19. You need to take your imagination to Hollywood.....

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What?It's exactly what SK did.They turned into police state LINK

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After the 2015 MERS outbreak, South Korea developed new procedures and revised laws to enable more aggressive contact-tracing. The government was given the ability to access citizens’ credit card records, cellphone GPS data, bank records, and the wide-ranging network of security cameras. 

South Korea has the highest proportion of cashless transactions in the world and one of the world’s highest rates of cellphone ownership, along with millions of security cameras.

During dangerous epidemics, authorities have warrantless access to the private data. 

Once someone is confirmed with COVID-19, the government can retrace their movements and alert, notify, and if necessary, quarantine others who may have come into contact with them. Quarantined people are required to download a monitoring app that alerts authorities if they break isolation. 

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Good luck with getting warrentless access to phone records and bank records in this country

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yes but he's MMQBing that argument and it makes no rational sense

the issue is EARLY appropriation of tests, b/c that's when fedgov was still in control. those tests weren't going to non-infected states much

however, AFTER testing was opened up to private industry, it exploded in those areas. that's not "appropriation" b/c it was out of the government's hands at that point

he/she is using data from after the government ceded control to argue about the situation when the government was in full control

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The "fedgov" is still supposed to be in full control, because the law states they are. The CDC has federal control over what state governments can/cannot do in regards to infectious disease.

The FDA has federal authority over drugs and testing devices and other medical devices that may be used or may be developed in times of pandemic infection.

It requires waivers and EUAs from the FDA, or they have the lawful right and authority to shut down state attempts to address infection and treatment at the state level. Even the CDC can be shut down by the FDA - a sister agency - if they do not follow approved methods.

Your implication that the "fedgov" handed over authorities on how to deal with this COVID-19, as if they have no more say in the matter, is cute in it's quaintness and naivety. Trump would NEVER give up authority of ANYTHING. The only thing he has given up is the responsibility. Not the same thing.


The CDC's first tests that had the negative control contamination were sent as kits to pre-CDC approved subordinate state labs to confirm their efficacy. These kits were designed to support 700 sample tests per kit, and 200 kits were sent out in early February (Feb. 5). They were NOT used to test patient samples, but only used to trial samples.

Once the defective negative controls were determined, the tests were sent back to CDC to determine why they failed. In the meantime, the CDC worked to fix the issue, which took most of February. Once they fixed the defect, they began sending out test kits to pre-approved state government labs, and by-passed the trial confirmation, allowing for those kits to be used to test actual patient samples. The # of test kits were still very low, some 250 a day.

By the end of February, the FDA agreed to drop regulations of pre-approving state testing labs, and allowed for private, commercial, and institutional labs to begin developing and conducting tests. These labs however were still heavily dependent on available supplies of needed test components from outside sources.

By mid March, the FDA (or CDC, not sure right now) dropped another regulation requiring all test results to be sent to the CDC offices in Atlanta, GA for confirmation, which was drastically slowing and bottle-necking test results, and creating a backlog of waiting samples.

Again, this was in middle March. Go check Chromedome's thread and see where the daily test cases start kicking upwardly. It was middle March. THAT was when we finally stopped running in place on top of the water, and starting progressing forward in testing. The middle of March.

The "fedgov" has had it's fingers in this pie the whole way. It hasn't given up "control" of anything - it merely started getting out of everyone's way. It's still not out the whole way, however.

But the private industry has still struggled to ramp up manufacture of all the test components - swabs, vials, reagent compounds, extraction chemicals. There's still been a huge depletion of PPE supplies for other protective gear that is needed for safe application of the tests.

Again, it is the "fedgov" - the President of the United States - that has sole authority to enact the Defense Production Act. The state governments do not have this power. The President could have invoked this authority from the start, since his administration knew for years that PPE stockpiles for such a viral pandemic was depleted.

Still, Trump waited until March 18 to declare his intention to use the DPA, but didn't actually use it until Mar. 27th for General Motors, and then April 2nd for several companies to manufacture N95 masks, nearly a month later after it was well known there were few supplies of such masks available. Just 5 days ago, they announced they would use the DPA to ramp up manufacture of swabs.

Again, this is FEDERAL GOVERNMENT control, not state government. A State Governor in Wyoming cannot do a damned thing to make a business in New Mexico manufacture emergency supplies for them.

AGAIN, there has been ZERO concession of control. The ONLY thing Trump has sought to do from the beginning, is deny responsibility.

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has sought to do from the beginning, is deny responsibility.

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No one takes you seriously when you spout complete bullshite.

You should calm down and try to get your point across without blatant lies. But, TDS is a hell of a thing.

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after the CDC failed, Trump acted like a LEADER and forced the CDC/FDA to get out of the way so private testing could be done

and it has been very successful in making up for the gap that the CDC left us in

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The CDC was determined failed by all labs they sent the test kits to, by middle February, if not a few days sooner. It took until middle March to get out of the private labs' way? Do you know how long a month is, during an ongoing novel pandemic?? You call that leadership? Every one of those obstacles, the Trump Administration knew they would be obstacles months - if not years - before 2020, and it still took the nation becoming infected before Trump "led"?

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you criticize him for not acting like a dictator while claiming he acts like a dictator

tell me again how SK didn't use the surveillance state to thwart early spread of COVID-19, and how their TOTALLY not authoritarian moves could work in the US. please focus on the comparable CCTV coverage as well as state intrusiveness in sensitive, personal data.

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The CDC, FDA, FEMA, and the Defense Production Act are not considered dictator powers by the federal government, nor by Congress. I haven't not criticized Trump for not acting like a dictator - you need to create the strawman in order post emoticons, take it to the Rant.....

South Korea has been regarded by the United States government as a liberal democracy since the late 1980s. By what you mean with SK using "the surveillance state", you need to explain more. To reply to the OP of this thread, South Korea recognized the threat of COVID-19 early, and had an established plan/program of working with its national industry and manufacturers to coordinate the development of mass numbers of testing, which they had very early on.

They mass-tested their populace - even tested asymptomatic citizens - and were able to map out regions of contaminant of the virus early on. Then they focused hard on quarantining those regions, and practiced social distancing and economic shutdowns for those regions immediately, and saw a drastic decline of the infection's spread as a result.

One could make the argument that the SK government's direction and organization of private corporation cooperation with the government as being a form of "authoritarian" influence, but it's a pretty weak effort of spin.

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TRUMP IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL FEDERAL ACTS BUT HE WOULD ALSO NEVER GIVE UP POWER RAWR


because the CDC cost us all of Feb and Trump change policies and the CDC/FDA gave up control and private industry did work

the timeline you posted is an argument for how Trump handled this crisis well in the face of bureaucratic failure by the CDC

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You're trying in a very pitiful fashion, to somehow dissect several federal agencies/departments that ANY U.S. President is supposed to be responsible for, from Donald Trump's responsibility. You keep referring to Trump's LEADERSHIP:

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Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Nov 8, 2013
Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.

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The CDC doesn't do anything without approval of Trump. Again, the Trump Administration knew for years how poorly prepared the U.S. was for a pandemic, and he did nothing but whittled down the CDC's effectiveness to rapidly respond to COVID-19, and did nothing but allowed the U.S.'s federal response overall to COVID-19 to stumble and stagger.....