- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Why did Northern men volunteer to fight in the Union Army?
Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:13 pm to BamaGradinTn
Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:13 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
By this logic, you don't own your salary either.
You don't. Taxation is slavery.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:15 pm to efrad
quote:
By this logic, you don't own your salary either.
You don't. Taxation is slavery.
Not as long as the representatives are responsible to the people.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:23 pm to AggieDub14
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:09 pm to MMauler
quote:
Because their factories would have been empty if they couldn't force the South to sell their raw materials to the North rather than France and England -- using their numbers advantage in Congress to impose export tariffs.
Ignorant neo-reb.
Taxes on exports are explicitly forbidden in the Constitution.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:12 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Not as long as the representatives are responsible to the people.
So if you're robbed by a group of people, you have no moral claim to prevent the theft because most of the people present had their wishes represented by the action?
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:26 pm to weagle99
I've never thought about this before - it's a good question IMO
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:36 pm to efrad
quote:
Not as long as the representatives are responsible to the people.
So if you're robbed by a group of people, you have no moral claim to prevent the theft because most of the people present had their wishes represented by the action?
If you like.
It is the called the tyranny of the Majority.
"The phrase "tyranny of the majority" was used by John Adams in 1788.[8]
It was also used by Edmund Burke in Reflections on the Revolution in France (1790), where he said that "The tyranny of a multitude is a multiplied tyranny." It was further popularised by John Stuart Mill in On Liberty (1859). The Federalist Papers and the phrase (in translation) is used at least once in the first sequel to Human, All Too Human (1879).[9]
Ayn Rand wrote that individual rights are not subject to a public vote, and that the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities and "the smallest minority on earth is the individual".[10]
In Herbert Marcuse's 1965 essay "Repressive Tolerance", he said "tolerance is extended to policies, conditions, and modes of behavior which should not be tolerated because they are impeding, if not destroying, the chances of creating an existence without fear and misery" and that "this sort of tolerance strengthens the tyranny of the majority against which authentic liberals protested".[11]
In 1994, legal scholar Lani Guinier used the phrase as the title for a collection of law review articles.[12]
LINK
It is not exactly a new idea.
It comes down to what Churchill said. "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others."
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:43 pm to BamaGradinTn
you don't own your salary either.
The modern Democratic Party has brainwashed their followers to believe this.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:43 pm to efrad
quote:
So if you're robbed by a group of people, you have no moral claim to prevent the theft because most of the people present had their wishes represented by the action?
Here is another take.
"From questions of this class spring all our constitutional controversies, and we divide upon them into majorities and minorities. If the minority will not acquiesce, the majority must, or the Government must cease. There is no other alternative, for continuing the Government is acquiescence on one side or the other. If a minority in such case will secede rather than acquiesce, they make a precedent which in turn will divide and ruin them, for a minority of their own will secede from them whenever a majority refuses to be controlled by such minority. For instance, why may not any portion of a new confederacy a year or two hence arbitrarily secede again, precisely as portions of the present Union now claim to secede from it? All who cherish disunion sentiments are now being educated to the exact temper of doing this."
- A Lincoln 3/4/61
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:51 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
WhiskeyPapa
None of this addresses whether taxation is morally right or wrong. You're only addressing which way the wind will blow politically. And we already know which way that is.
It still doesn't make taxation not theft.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:54 pm to WhiskeyPapa
None of what Lincoln said there speaks to what the motivation of the Northern troops in the ranks; which is what the OP asked. I think a vast majority fought simply from the notion that they should.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:56 pm to weagle99
quote:
There was a draft but my understanding is that drafted numbers were relatively low.
So why would someone on a farm in Ohio volunteer to go attack people in another state who just wanted to be left alone?
Interesting bit of history, many of the Blue Coats that fought in and around the Missouri/Arkansas area were new immigrants from Deutschland, very few spoke English and were pretty much thrown into the war because they were new arrivals and had no choice.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:59 pm to efrad
quote:
It still doesn't make taxation not theft.
It makes you sound as dumb as a rock.
Would you agree to be taxed to build a road network? Or dams, canals, infrastructure? Would you feel safe flying in a plane with no radar system directing other planes?
The only way to do that is to elect people you can trust, provide a mechanism by which they can raise funds to accomplish ends beneficial to all.
Is our current government totally corrupt and working against the best interests of the people? That would be hard to deny. But that is a different issue.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:04 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
This quote from Ang Lee's "Ride with the Devil" just about sums it up for me.
Mr. Evans: They (Yankees) rounded every pup up into that schoolhouse because they fancied that everyone should think and talk the same free-thinkin' way they do with no regard to station, custom, propriety. And that is why they will win. Because they believe everyone should live and think just like them. And we shall lose because we don't care one way or another how they live. We just worry about ourselves.
Jack Bull Chiles: Are you sayin', sir, that we fight for nothin'?
Mr. Evans: Far from it, Mr. Chiles. You fight for everything that we ever had, as did my son. It's just that... we don't have it anymore.
Great movie and pertinent quote that parallels the mind set and movement of today's progressives. They believe all citizens need to accept the progressive download or face never ending temper tantrums.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:29 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
It makes you sound as dumb as a rock.
It makes him completely accurate.
quote:
The only way to do that is to elect people you can trust, provide a mechanism by which they can raise funds to accomplish ends beneficial to all.
This is not the only way to do any of that.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:58 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Would you agree to be taxed to build a road network? Or dams, canals, infrastructure? Would you feel safe flying in a plane with no radar system directing other planes?
It doesn't matter if I agree or not. Because I have no say so. If I don't agree, armed government agents will come to my house and kidnap me and lock me in a cage. I have no choice in the matter.
And if I do agree, and other citizens agree together, why can't they privately form a group to pool resources, purchase property, and create a road network?
And if there aren't enough citizens who agree to such a project to raise enough money, a private group can always put up enough money to get a project started, perhaps with a loan, and they can charge a toll for its use, which for the users of the road is no different than paying for road maintenance through various forms of taxes.
Except it's entirely voluntary and ethical.
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:08 pm to weagle99
quote:
r to go attack people in another state who just wanted to be left alone?
Left alone?
John Brown it!
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:12 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
And a ton of the Union army were recent immigrants...and mostly why any young people join a fight...wages and food and a place to sleep.
But...
Witnessing the slave system of the Confederacy first-hand also strengthened the anti-slavery views of Union soldiers, who were appalled by its brutality.
He stated that "Experience in the South reinforced the antislavery sentiments of many soldiers."
One Union soldier said "I thought I had hated slavery as much as possible before I came here, but here, where I can see some of its workings, I am more than ever convinced of the cruelty and inhumanity of the system."
But...
Witnessing the slave system of the Confederacy first-hand also strengthened the anti-slavery views of Union soldiers, who were appalled by its brutality.
He stated that "Experience in the South reinforced the antislavery sentiments of many soldiers."
One Union soldier said "I thought I had hated slavery as much as possible before I came here, but here, where I can see some of its workings, I am more than ever convinced of the cruelty and inhumanity of the system."
Posted on 6/24/17 at 11:09 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
If any of you are on Twitter, Richard Brookhiser has been having a nice give and take with his followers about the Civil War and the American Revolution the last couple of days.
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News