Started By
Message

re: Why did Northern men volunteer to fight in the Union Army?

Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:13 pm to
Posted by efrad
Member since Nov 2007
18651 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

By this logic, you don't own your salary either.



You don't. Taxation is slavery.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:15 pm to
quote:

By this logic, you don't own your salary either.

You don't. Taxation is slavery.


Not as long as the representatives are responsible to the people.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 7:23 pm to


quote:

Patriotism


These Gettysburg Hills
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:09 pm to
quote:

Because their factories would have been empty if they couldn't force the South to sell their raw materials to the North rather than France and England -- using their numbers advantage in Congress to impose export tariffs.


Ignorant neo-reb.

Taxes on exports are explicitly forbidden in the Constitution.
Posted by efrad
Member since Nov 2007
18651 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:12 pm to
quote:

Not as long as the representatives are responsible to the people.



So if you're robbed by a group of people, you have no moral claim to prevent the theft because most of the people present had their wishes represented by the action?
Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
82267 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:26 pm to
I've never thought about this before - it's a good question IMO
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:36 pm to
quote:

Not as long as the representatives are responsible to the people.

So if you're robbed by a group of people, you have no moral claim to prevent the theft because most of the people present had their wishes represented by the action?


If you like.

It is the called the tyranny of the Majority.

"The phrase "tyranny of the majority" was used by John Adams in 1788.[8]

It was also used by Edmund Burke in Reflections on the Revolution in France (1790), where he said that "The tyranny of a multitude is a multiplied tyranny." It was further popularised by John Stuart Mill in On Liberty (1859). The Federalist Papers and the phrase (in translation) is used at least once in the first sequel to Human, All Too Human (1879).[9]

Ayn Rand wrote that individual rights are not subject to a public vote, and that the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities and "the smallest minority on earth is the individual".[10]

In Herbert Marcuse's 1965 essay "Repressive Tolerance", he said "tolerance is extended to policies, conditions, and modes of behavior which should not be tolerated because they are impeding, if not destroying, the chances of creating an existence without fear and misery" and that "this sort of tolerance strengthens the tyranny of the majority against which authentic liberals protested".[11]
In 1994, legal scholar Lani Guinier used the phrase as the title for a collection of law review articles.[12]


LINK

It is not exactly a new idea.

It comes down to what Churchill said. "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others."
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
30279 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:43 pm to

you don't own your salary either.


The modern Democratic Party has brainwashed their followers to believe this.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:43 pm to
quote:

So if you're robbed by a group of people, you have no moral claim to prevent the theft because most of the people present had their wishes represented by the action?


Here is another take.

"From questions of this class spring all our constitutional controversies, and we divide upon them into majorities and minorities. If the minority will not acquiesce, the majority must, or the Government must cease. There is no other alternative, for continuing the Government is acquiescence on one side or the other. If a minority in such case will secede rather than acquiesce, they make a precedent which in turn will divide and ruin them, for a minority of their own will secede from them whenever a majority refuses to be controlled by such minority. For instance, why may not any portion of a new confederacy a year or two hence arbitrarily secede again, precisely as portions of the present Union now claim to secede from it? All who cherish disunion sentiments are now being educated to the exact temper of doing this."

- A Lincoln 3/4/61
Posted by efrad
Member since Nov 2007
18651 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:51 pm to
quote:

WhiskeyPapa


None of this addresses whether taxation is morally right or wrong. You're only addressing which way the wind will blow politically. And we already know which way that is.

It still doesn't make taxation not theft.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
30279 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:54 pm to
None of what Lincoln said there speaks to what the motivation of the Northern troops in the ranks; which is what the OP asked. I think a vast majority fought simply from the notion that they should.
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
46358 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:56 pm to
quote:

There was a draft but my understanding is that drafted numbers were relatively low.

So why would someone on a farm in Ohio volunteer to go attack people in another state who just wanted to be left alone?



Interesting bit of history, many of the Blue Coats that fought in and around the Missouri/Arkansas area were new immigrants from Deutschland, very few spoke English and were pretty much thrown into the war because they were new arrivals and had no choice.

Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 8:59 pm to
quote:

It still doesn't make taxation not theft.


It makes you sound as dumb as a rock.

Would you agree to be taxed to build a road network? Or dams, canals, infrastructure? Would you feel safe flying in a plane with no radar system directing other planes?

The only way to do that is to elect people you can trust, provide a mechanism by which they can raise funds to accomplish ends beneficial to all.

Is our current government totally corrupt and working against the best interests of the people? That would be hard to deny. But that is a different issue.
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
46358 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:04 pm to
quote:

This quote from Ang Lee's "Ride with the Devil" just about sums it up for me.

Mr. Evans: They (Yankees) rounded every pup up into that schoolhouse because they fancied that everyone should think and talk the same free-thinkin' way they do with no regard to station, custom, propriety. And that is why they will win. Because they believe everyone should live and think just like them. And we shall lose because we don't care one way or another how they live. We just worry about ourselves.

Jack Bull Chiles: Are you sayin', sir, that we fight for nothin'?

Mr. Evans: Far from it, Mr. Chiles. You fight for everything that we ever had, as did my son. It's just that... we don't have it anymore.


Great movie and pertinent quote that parallels the mind set and movement of today's progressives. They believe all citizens need to accept the progressive download or face never ending temper tantrums.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
72740 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:29 pm to
quote:

It makes you sound as dumb as a rock.



It makes him completely accurate.

quote:

The only way to do that is to elect people you can trust, provide a mechanism by which they can raise funds to accomplish ends beneficial to all.



This is not the only way to do any of that.
Posted by efrad
Member since Nov 2007
18651 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:58 pm to
quote:

Would you agree to be taxed to build a road network? Or dams, canals, infrastructure? Would you feel safe flying in a plane with no radar system directing other planes?



It doesn't matter if I agree or not. Because I have no say so. If I don't agree, armed government agents will come to my house and kidnap me and lock me in a cage. I have no choice in the matter.

And if I do agree, and other citizens agree together, why can't they privately form a group to pool resources, purchase property, and create a road network?

And if there aren't enough citizens who agree to such a project to raise enough money, a private group can always put up enough money to get a project started, perhaps with a loan, and they can charge a toll for its use, which for the users of the road is no different than paying for road maintenance through various forms of taxes.

Except it's entirely voluntary and ethical.
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35636 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:08 pm to
quote:

r to go attack people in another state who just wanted to be left alone?


Left alone?

John Brown it!
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35636 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:12 pm to
And a ton of the Union army were recent immigrants...and mostly why any young people join a fight...wages and food and a place to sleep.

But...

Witnessing the slave system of the Confederacy first-hand also strengthened the anti-slavery views of Union soldiers, who were appalled by its brutality.

He stated that "Experience in the South reinforced the antislavery sentiments of many soldiers."

One Union soldier said "I thought I had hated slavery as much as possible before I came here, but here, where I can see some of its workings, I am more than ever convinced of the cruelty and inhumanity of the system."
Posted by redandright
Member since Jun 2011
9632 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 11:09 pm to
If any of you are on Twitter, Richard Brookhiser has been having a nice give and take with his followers about the Civil War and the American Revolution the last couple of days.

Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
53122 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 11:32 pm to
They were beta cucks
Jump to page
Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10
Jump to page
first pageprev pagePage 3 of 10Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram