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re: Why are “Hitler” and “Nazi” comparisons off limits?

Posted on 1/11/21 at 11:12 am to
Posted by NashvilleTider
Your Mom
Member since Jan 2007
13871 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 11:12 am to
Live not by lies

LINK

(Long)

Rod Dreher begins his introduction to “Live Not By Lies” by quoting Alexander Solzhenitsyn, survivor of and writer concerning the Soviet gulags. Solzhenitsyn writes, “There is always this fallacious belief: ‘It would not be the same here; here such things are impossible.’ Alas, all the evil of the twentieth century is possible everywhere on earth.” (p. ix) With this premise asserted in the very opening pages of the book, Dreher then documents three things. First, the totalitarianism of the Soviet block countries is advancing in the west—specifically in America. Second, the book spends a great deal of time recounting the lives of those that survived the communist totalitarian regimes. And finally, the book applies the knowledge and experience of the communist survivors to how Christians might survive what is coming in America.

Part One of the book is “Understanding Soft Totalitarianism.” These four chapters are meant to awaken American readers to the reality of the growing ‘soft’ totalitarianism we face, rather than the ‘hard’ that was in the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc countries. Dreher uses Hannah Arendt when. Building his definition of totalitarianism. He writes, “a totalitarian society is one in which an ideology seeks to displace all prior traditions and institutions, with the goal of bringing all aspects of society under control of that ideology. A totalitarian state is one that aspires to nothing less than defining and controlling reality. Truth is whatever the rulers decide it is.”

The difference between ‘hard’ and ‘soft’ totalitarianism is centered upon the way it is enforced. Rather than being enforced by ‘government decree’ as in ‘hard’ totalitarianism, ‘soft’ totalitarianism is enforced by ‘the persuasiveness of consumer capitalism.’ (p. xv)

Dreher argues that “Many conservatives today fail to grasp the gravity of today’s threat, dismissing it as mere ‘political correctness’—a previous generation’s disparaging term for so-called ‘wokeness.’” (p. 8) Conservatives fail to see that this ideology has begun to establish itself in ‘corporate America’, having graduated from college campuses. Dreher writes, “Today…dissenters from the woke party line find their businesses, careers, and reputations destroyed.” (p. 8-9) This is the way ‘soft’ totalitarianism has become, and is being established into mainstream America. It “masquerades as kindness, demonizing dissenters and disfavored demographic groups to protect the feelings of ‘victims’ in order to bring about ‘social justice.’” (p. 9)

Dreher argues that “The public will support, or at least not oppose, the coming soft totalitarianism, not because it fears the imposition of cruel punishments but because it will be more or less satisfied by hedonistic comforts.” He says, “people will surrender political rights in exchange for guarantees of personal pleasure.” (p.10-11) He goes on to say that “Christian resistance…has been fruitless… Because the spirit of the therapeutic has conquered the churches as well—even those populated by Christians that identify as conservative.” (p. 13) In short, Christians are unprepared to suffer for their faith because “the idea of bearing pain for the sake of truth seems ridiculous.” (p. 13)

Throughout these arguments, Dreher brings in anecdotal evidence from those that lived under totalitarian regimes. Those that once lived under the heavy hand of totalitarian governments have been warning those willing to listen for years, that totalitarianism has come to America. Is Dreher an alarmist? Perhaps, but even those, like myself, well acquainted with the works of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Richard Wurmbrand, Orwell, and Huxley—we see signs all around us that we’re already waist-deep in soft-totalitarianism. It has happened hard and fast—becoming especially apparent with the MeToo movement, and most of all in the horrific year that has been 2020.

I’ve spent most of this review in the relatively brief first part of “Live Not By Lies” because this is what is ncessary to grasp the importance of this book. But the true and lasting value of the book will be in the “how-to” portion that is most of the rest of the book. This truly is a “Manual for Christian Dissidents.” This book distills the best of what is most needed from the lives and legacies of those that survived the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc countries. If you have time, read those works as well. But at least begin with this book. This will begin the process of preparing to “Live in Truth” as Dreher puts it. Christians must begin preparing now, or we will not be prepared for what is coming. We need to prepare our hearts and souls to survive what is designed to destroy us. But God reigns. He brought a remnant out of the 20th century, and he will bring a remnant out of this one.
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 11:13 am
Posted by Bobby OG Johnson
Member since Apr 2015
31976 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 11:20 am to
Posted by AURaptor
South
Member since Aug 2018
11958 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 11:50 am to
Using force to silence free speech & dissent - techno - kristallnacht. Straight up.
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 11:51 am
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
46943 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 11:51 am to
quote:

The democrats condemned every bit of it


Bull fricking shite. They encouraged it and said they were exercising their rights.
Posted by Bristol Dawg
God's Country
Member since Jul 2016
2934 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

The democrats condemned every bit of it


Bull fricking shite. They encouraged it and said they were exercising their rights.


There you go - making stuff up to make yourself feel better...

"Do you condemn Antifa?" reporter Barbara Barr asked Biden.

"Yes, I do, violence no matter who it is," he replied.

The Trump campaign has called the former vice president out for not mentioning the anarchist group by name. Biden campaign senior adviser Symone Sanders responded to those accusations during an appearance on "Fox News Sunday" this week.

Democratic presidential candidate former Vice President Joe Biden pauses as he speaks in Wilmington, Del., Sept. 2, 2020, about school reopenings. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)
Democratic presidential candidate former Vice President Joe Biden pauses as he speaks in Wilmington, Del., Sept. 2, 2020, about school reopenings. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)
"The vice president has been very clear: he condemns all forms of violence," Sanders said. "And, frankly, what you heard him say in the speech that he gave last week was: it doesn't matter what political party you belong to -- it doesn’t matter what your political beliefs are. Violence is wrong. And in the moment he is calling for calm."

Local and national lawmakers have released statements condemning militant anti-fascist group Antifa following violence at a Berkeley protest last week.

The condemnation comes after skirmishes broke out Sunday during an anti-Marxist rally and a subsequent counter-protest against racism. Those who repudiated the violence include Berkeley Mayor Jesse Arreguin, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, Rep. Adam Schiff, and others.

"Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts," Pelosi said in what was arguably the strongest disavowal of the group from a Democrat. "The violent actions of people calling themselves Antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted."
Posted by BamaGradinTn
Murfreesboro
Member since Dec 2008
27847 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:04 pm to
There really s a "Hitler rule" when it comes to debate. ...that being that if you have to resort to comparisons to Hitler, you've lost the debate. It's true, no matter which side resorts to it. No one on either side has tried to exterminate an entire race of people.
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 12:06 pm
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
75838 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

a totalitarian society is one in which an ideology seeks to displace all prior traditions and institutions


I’m how do nationalist societies the emphasize prior traditions and Institutions fit into this definition?

Isn’t a monarchy part of prior traditions and institutions? But if the Queen of England took over and started ruling as a true monarchy wouldn’t that be a totalitarian society?

Feels like a real case of starting with a conclusion and working backwards to create a definition.
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 12:10 pm
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34681 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:09 pm to
Yup Godwin's Law.

Basically if you are educated enough about history to reach into the past and make a valid historical comparison then you likely know enough to pick a different regime for your comparison than the Nazi's.

If you got your historical education from The History Channel and public schools than your go-to bad guys are Hitler and the Nazi's and therefore comparisons to those regimes are a signal of your general level of education (or lack thereof).
Posted by NashvilleTider
Your Mom
Member since Jan 2007
13871 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:19 pm to
Kamala was literally bailing out violent rioters - that’s what you call support

Maddona said blow up the White House

Maxine said “ If you see anybody from this Cabinet in a restaurant, in a Department Store, in a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd! You push back on them! You tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere”

Huffington Post Blogger Declares Trump Supporters Deserve to Die

Mike Dickinson, the far-left radical running to be mayor of Richmond, Virginia, said Donald Trump deserves to die, and those who support him deserve to be assaulted.

Actor Alec Baldwin Wants Trump to Die: “Bury Him in a Nazi Graveyard, Put a Swastika on His Grave

Kathy Griffin retweets pic of bloody ‘decapitated’ Trump head after president claims victory in 2020 election

Rolling stone: “historical pedigree of property destruction as a tactic of resistance is long and frequently effective,”

CNN host Don Lemon reminded viewers that the United States was started because of the Boston Tea Party rioters.
“So do not get it twisted and think this is something that has never happened before and this is so terrible and these savages and all of that,” Lemon said. “This is how this country was started”
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 12:20 pm
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
25514 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

I'd say it's pretty close and Hitler and Nazi comparison's are quite relevant.


Don't break any bones trying to bend over backwards comparing anything of the past 4 years to Nazi Germany.

The take over of communication that we've seen in the last few years however....
Posted by oleheat
Sportsman's Paradise
Member since Mar 2007
14190 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Trump has a subset of his followers believing in conspiracies, that they are 'patriots' and that they should carry out terror attacks. I'd say it's pretty close and Hitler and Nazi comparison's are quite relevant.

Luckily, we still have an overwhelming majority who are able to critically reason and have not fallen victim.






Cool- except BLM/Antifa's "protest" activities had a much closer resemblance to Kristallnacht than the small percentage of Trump supporters who decided to break into the Capitol Building last week.
Posted by jfw3535
South of Bunkie
Member since Mar 2008
5232 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:28 pm to
Legitimate comparisons when warranted are fine. The current trend of calling anyone who doesn't agree with the far lestist agenda a Nazi are not fine and they completely dilute the severity and import of the comparison in general.
Posted by BiteMe2020
Texas
Member since Nov 2020
7284 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:29 pm to
Modern Democrats are the kinder, gentler versions of the Nazis.

They've ceased targeting just Jewish people only, and have held off shooting people in the street, for now.

Other than that, pretty much the same.
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 12:30 pm
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
75838 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:35 pm to
The Democrats aren’t a nationalist movement blaming communists and minorities for the all the countries problems and bemoaning a loss of “traditional” values.

Neither party is doing the whole ethnic cleansing thing (thankfully) and neither party is trying to take over the world.
Posted by Bulldogblitz
In my house
Member since Dec 2018
28107 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:35 pm to
Because the ovens haven't been lit yet.
Posted by Gulf Coast Tiger
Ms Gulf Coast
Member since Jan 2004
19383 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

Trump's rhetoric fired up the apolitical fascist and racial groups, which effectively hand-cuffed him and you're still sticking with the democrats here huh?

I just can't understand how you can't recognize reality. The democrats condemned every bit of it and the current administration (because they stirred the pot and created it) was rendered powerless.

Progress will resume and this will get encapsulated again soon.



Reality? Condemned the protest?

Which reality are you living in?




Harris and the dems supported the riots all summer. Harris and her staff donate money to bond out the rioters.

Please tell us how Trump had anything to do with a police officer in a democrat run city killing a man? The Democrat politicians of that city failed all of us by not firing this man long before he ever met Floyd. They had plenty of reasons to fire him yet they didn't. Why are we not blaming the city leaders for that failure?

You blame President Trump for the actions of Democrats.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
86891 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

Trump's rhetoric fired up the apolitical fascist and racial groups, which effectively hand-cuffed him and you're still sticking with the democrats here huh?

I just can't understand how you can't recognize reality. The democrats condemned every bit of it and the current administration (because they stirred the pot and created it) was rendered powerless.

Progress will resume and this will get encapsulated again soon.


God damn, leftists are stupid.
Posted by PaperTiger
Ruston, LA
Member since Feb 2015
25627 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 12:51 pm to
You dont know how this game is played yet? They get to make absurd comparisons, you dont. Got it?

Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
46943 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

The Democrats aren’t a nationalist movement blaming communists and minorities for the all the countries problems


No. They blame straight white men.
Posted by SOKAL
Member since May 2018
4124 posts
Posted on 1/11/21 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

Dreher argues that “The public will support, or at least not oppose, the coming soft totalitarianism, not because it fears the imposition of cruel punishments but because it will be more or less satisfied by hedonistic comforts.” He says, “people will surrender political rights in exchange for guarantees of personal pleasure.” (p.10-11)


I think that was Huxley's vision.

Thanks for the info, I will be reading.

One of the themes of the GA that seems really relevant today is the angst Solzhenitsyn and other prisoners felt about their contributions to their own demise. I recall him pondering at how different things might have been if, instead of burying their heads when the Party came for their neighbors, they had stood up and made it risky for the agents of the State.

We see something very similar today - people on the left gleefully observe censorship and oppression of views -- because it is not their views that are being targeted, at least at the moment.

But revolutions always continue. Take a look at those who are most under the influence of leftist ideology. If one stops and thinks about it, it is obvious that those types of people will never be satisfied. At no point can one reasonably expect that they will take a look around and declare "we have gone far enough, our work is done." To think that "you" are somehow immune from their vengeful methods is to completely ignore the lessons of the 20th Century.

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