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Started By
Message
Who is Vindman and what did he do?
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:07 am
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:07 am
OK, 95% of the posters on this forum hate LTC Vindman. I understand that, and I have no desire to argue that point. I just want to see if we can reach some consensus as to exactly who this man is and what he did.
It is my hope that EVERYONE can set aside agreement or disagreement with his views and/or actions and that we can simply focus upon the objective FACTS. Exactly WHAT HAPPENED?
As I understand it, he is a career military officer who was assigned to the NSC as an expert on Eastern Europe in general and Ukraine in particular. In that capacity and in the ordinary course of his duties, he was party (listened passively in the Situation Room) to the telephone call between POTUS and the president of Ukraine. While he listened real-time, he did not actively participate. Apparently, it is the norm for calls of this type for the NSC regional expert to listen.
Rightly or wrongly, he was concerned about the propriety of certain elements of that call, and he reported those concerns to his superiors at the NSC. Did he run to the press or anything of that nature? I have not seen that this is the case. Is there any DIRECT evidence that he took his concerns directly to Congress or to anyone other than superiors at the NSC? Yes, there has been plenty of speculation, but I am asking about objective fact.
I fully understand that many do not share his concerns. Again, agreement or disagreement is NOT the subject of this post.
His role as a passive participant in the telephone call was apparently not a secret of any sort. When the call became controversial, Congressional Dems issued a subpoena for his testimony about the call. Did he actively solicit a Congressional subpoena? Again, there has been speculation, but I have not seen any EVIDENCE that this is the case. Is there any?
Unlike a number of members of the Trump administration, LTG Vindman did NOT defy the Congressional subpoena and appeared to testify before a Congressional committee, as directed by the subpoena.
I have seen arguments that committed treason or insubordination or one of a dozen other legal or ethical violations by complying with the subpoena. I understand fully that many do not LIKE the Congressional subpoena, but I ask that we PLEASE set that dispute aside for the moment. Partisan motivations aside, Congress clearly DOES have the authority to issue subpoenas, and it did so.
Simple question — Did POTUS directly order Vindman to defy the Congressional subpoena? (I note in passing that Hope Hicks also complied in part with Congressional subpoenas, in DIRECT defiance of instructions from POTUS). I have not seen that POTUS issued any such order to Vindman.
This is an important question. If POTUS did issue such an order, it would create a major conflict between (a) that order from the C-in-C to a military officer and (b) a validly-issued Congressional subpoena. Absent such an order, however, how could Vindman be guilty of any malfeasance by complying with a legal subpoena?
It is my hope that EVERYONE can set aside agreement or disagreement with his views and/or actions and that we can simply focus upon the objective FACTS. Exactly WHAT HAPPENED?
As I understand it, he is a career military officer who was assigned to the NSC as an expert on Eastern Europe in general and Ukraine in particular. In that capacity and in the ordinary course of his duties, he was party (listened passively in the Situation Room) to the telephone call between POTUS and the president of Ukraine. While he listened real-time, he did not actively participate. Apparently, it is the norm for calls of this type for the NSC regional expert to listen.
Rightly or wrongly, he was concerned about the propriety of certain elements of that call, and he reported those concerns to his superiors at the NSC. Did he run to the press or anything of that nature? I have not seen that this is the case. Is there any DIRECT evidence that he took his concerns directly to Congress or to anyone other than superiors at the NSC? Yes, there has been plenty of speculation, but I am asking about objective fact.
I fully understand that many do not share his concerns. Again, agreement or disagreement is NOT the subject of this post.
His role as a passive participant in the telephone call was apparently not a secret of any sort. When the call became controversial, Congressional Dems issued a subpoena for his testimony about the call. Did he actively solicit a Congressional subpoena? Again, there has been speculation, but I have not seen any EVIDENCE that this is the case. Is there any?
Unlike a number of members of the Trump administration, LTG Vindman did NOT defy the Congressional subpoena and appeared to testify before a Congressional committee, as directed by the subpoena.
I have seen arguments that committed treason or insubordination or one of a dozen other legal or ethical violations by complying with the subpoena. I understand fully that many do not LIKE the Congressional subpoena, but I ask that we PLEASE set that dispute aside for the moment. Partisan motivations aside, Congress clearly DOES have the authority to issue subpoenas, and it did so.
Simple question — Did POTUS directly order Vindman to defy the Congressional subpoena? (I note in passing that Hope Hicks also complied in part with Congressional subpoenas, in DIRECT defiance of instructions from POTUS). I have not seen that POTUS issued any such order to Vindman.
This is an important question. If POTUS did issue such an order, it would create a major conflict between (a) that order from the C-in-C to a military officer and (b) a validly-issued Congressional subpoena. Absent such an order, however, how could Vindman be guilty of any malfeasance by complying with a legal subpoena?
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:09 am to AggieHank86
quote:
what he did.
He leaked what he thought was the content of the July 25th phone call to the "whistleblower".
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:09 am to AggieHank86
Top official Tim Morrison said Alexander Vindman's bosses had a lot of concerns about him:
-Judgement
-Potential leaker
-Did not keep his bosses in the loop on what he was doing
-Went around his bosses' backs
-Was mad he was cut out of working on Ukraine pic.twitter.com/Z9qgSVs9dt
— Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) November 19, 2019
-Judgement
-Potential leaker
-Did not keep his bosses in the loop on what he was doing
-Went around his bosses' backs
-Was mad he was cut out of working on Ukraine pic.twitter.com/Z9qgSVs9dt
— Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) November 19, 2019
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:10 am to AggieHank86
What a wall of melt. That guy is a worthless fool
Ukraine offered him a job 3 times
He calls himself "not partisan"
Ukraine offered him a job 3 times
He calls himself "not partisan"
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:10 am to AggieHank86
quote:
and he reported those concerns to his superiors at the NSC
That's just it, he didn't do this. He didn't go to his direct supervisor. He want to a lawyer.
You just don't fricking do that as a military officer. Period. It reeks of having an agenda.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:12 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Rightly or wrongly, he was concerned about the propriety of certain elements of that call, and he reported those concerns to his superiors at the NSC. Did he run to the press or anything of that nature? I have not seen that this is the case. Is there any DIRECT evidence that he took his concerns directly to Congress or to anyone other than superiors at the NSC? Yes, there has been plenty of speculation, but I am asking about objective fact.
He didn’t. He leaked it to his friend, the whistle blower, who by all accounts and common sense hates trump with a passion and ran to Adam Schiffs office to type up the whistle blower complaint.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:12 am to Centinel
quote:
He didn't go to his direct supervisor. He want to a lawyer.
Not to mention his own brother also.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:14 am to AggieHank86
Oh Hank. Bless your heart.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:14 am to civiltiger07
quote:I mean no offense, but you were doing exactly what I specifically asked that we not do in this thread – speculating.
He leaked what he thought was the content of the July 25th phone call to the "whistleblower".
Do you have any objective evidence to this effect?
If we DO assume that he voiced his concerns to this “whistleblower,” why do we assume that it was a “leak” rather than a normal discussion in the ordinary course if the duties of those two individuals? Given that the identity of the “whistleblower” is as yet unknown, that seems a difficult “leap” to make.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:15 am to blowmeauburn
I’m not really sure who he is but I love how hard core liberals, especially those in the entertainment industry, are now huge military and military achievement fans.
Never heard much praise or adoration for military from these people until now. Strange.
Never heard much praise or adoration for military from these people until now. Strange.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:15 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Given that the identity of the “whistleblower” is as yet unknown
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:15 am to AggieHank86
Let me reiterate AggieHank:
His first stop for voicing his concerns wasn't his direct supervisor, it was a lawyer.
Do you think that is normal behavior?
His first stop for voicing his concerns wasn't his direct supervisor, it was a lawyer.
Do you think that is normal behavior?
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:16 am to AggieHank86
quote:
I mean no offense, but you were doing exactly what I specifically asked that we not do in this thread
Tough shite. Go start aggieswallows.com if you want to make the rules.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:16 am to AggieHank86
quote:
he reported those concerns to his superiors at the NSC
C'mon Hank, you know he didn't. This was a major point of contention yesterday
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:17 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Given that the identity of the “whistleblower” is as yet unknown
Schiff knows who the whistleblower is. Vindman knows who the whistleblower is. Vindman's lawyer knows who the whistleblower is. Also, the internet knows who the whistleblower is.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:17 am to AggieHank86
I watched him commit perjury yesterday under oath. Too bad the pussywhipped Republicans let him get away with it but hopefully there's a court martial in his future.
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:19 am to AggieHank86
Did Vindman say he was shocked?
Did Vindman say he was concerned about our entire Ukrainian policy being effected over this?
So how long did it take Vindman to report this to his immediate superiors?
He knows about chain of command over such a shocking turn right?
Did Vindman say he was concerned about our entire Ukrainian policy being effected over this?
So how long did it take Vindman to report this to his immediate superiors?
He knows about chain of command over such a shocking turn right?
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:19 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Given that the identity of the “whistleblower” is as yet unknown, that seems a difficult “leap” to make.
This is so fricking embarrassing. What is wrong with you?
Posted on 11/20/19 at 8:20 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Who is Vindman and what did he do
IT'S LEUTENANT COLONEL VINDMAN PLEASE!
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