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re: Which of the following points do you disagree with?
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:27 am to deuceiswild
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:27 am to deuceiswild
Point one, somewhat. Iran always want to have the threat of a nuclear weapon. This is the only thing that gives them any kind of bargaining power. They will not use it, as it it would assure the destruction of their own country. The people on this board who are convinced that they want to use a nuclear weapon are flat-out wrong. Their leaders, along with everything else, would be incinerated. Powerful people want to stay in power.
2
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:28 am to Centinel
quote:
You can just stop here for the majority of the people you're addressing.
Please don’t say things that you have no way of knowing about.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:29 am to deuceiswild
You're debating with people who will disagree with every logical point you've made, but will never acknowledge the costs of doing nothing. They won't admit that their "more of the same" strategy would've resulted in Iran obtaining nuclear weapons. They essentially want the radical terrorist Islamic regime in Iran to have nuclear weapons.
This post was edited on 4/6/26 at 9:36 am
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:29 am to wdhalgren
quote:
Very nice synopsis of the costs of doing nothing, which have been studiously ignored by US legacy media.
I believe this war was going to happen eventually, no matter what we did. And I believe it would have happened in the fairly near future. And I believe every day it didn't happen, it was only adding to the future costs of taking action. Especially to the cost of American lives.
I am glad Trump is calling the shots. His ego CAN play to our advantage and lead to actual quantifiable accomplishments this time. His ego can also turn things sideways, as well. Hopefully he is getting solid advice.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:31 am to nealnan8
I think they'd lob one over to Israel if they were certain they'd take out all of the Jericho program in one hit, but that's probably not going to happen these days.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:31 am to TrueTiger
quote:
We tried kindness and piles of cash. That didn't work.
The money we paid them was legally owed to them
Trump ripped up the JPCOA and that's when things started going sideways
Things were under control until Trump broke them
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:33 am to Powerman
quote:
Things were under control until Trump broke them
I can't tell if you're that stupid and naive, or just really hate Trump that much.
Probably both though.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:34 am to Centinel
quote:
I think they'd lob one over to Israel
You think that because you're an insane person.
Iran knows launching a nuclear weapon at Israel would mean complete destruction of their own country and likely trigger a nuclear apocalypse
They're crazy but they're not that crazy
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:35 am to deuceiswild
I agree with all of it.
However, the only popular war is a victorious one.
Until it is victorious, expect TDS. Expect pinko pacifists without context or clarity.
Expect power players thinking this is Game of Thrones and trying to subvert moves for personal gain.
None of the above is surprising in 2026.
However, the only popular war is a victorious one.
Until it is victorious, expect TDS. Expect pinko pacifists without context or clarity.
Expect power players thinking this is Game of Thrones and trying to subvert moves for personal gain.
None of the above is surprising in 2026.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:37 am to UtahCajun
Seems we are mostly on the same page...
These comments seem somewhat contradictory. Especially since above, you said you agree that they'd use a nuclear weapon if they had one.
This one doesn't make sense to me. I think maybe you misunderstood what I said? If not, then how would you explain their actions for the last few decades? Many of their actions are meant to cause economic harm to us, and to the world. Not to mention the killing of Americans.
quote:
Disagree. The want a conventional arsenal for the reasons they are using it today. Retaliation.
quote:
Disagree. Only nuclear capabilities ensure an equal diplomatic playing field with the world's only empire. That is what all nations seeking nukes want. It ensures that the one empire does not do empire things in their country.
These comments seem somewhat contradictory. Especially since above, you said you agree that they'd use a nuclear weapon if they had one.
quote:
Disagree...unless you honestly believe they are really suicidal.
This one doesn't make sense to me. I think maybe you misunderstood what I said? If not, then how would you explain their actions for the last few decades? Many of their actions are meant to cause economic harm to us, and to the world. Not to mention the killing of Americans.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:40 am to TrueTiger
I am far from expert on their religious beliefs, but I do believe those beliefs are important. They should be taken as seriously as any government doctrine.
I am slowly trying to learn a little about the various factions of the religion. But there are so many and I get confused as to who believes what, and in what regions do certain factions hold majority.
I am slowly trying to learn a little about the various factions of the religion. But there are so many and I get confused as to who believes what, and in what regions do certain factions hold majority.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:43 am to Powerman
quote:
Things were under control until Trump broke them
I know, right.
The Vatican was going to declare sainthood for Khomeini any day now before Trump was elected into office.
None of our soldiers died or were injured by Iranian ieds.
None of our bases or ships had been attacked by proxies.
Iran didn't tell us that they had enough 60% enriched uranium for 11 future warheads.
Its that Trump's fault.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:46 am to lionward2014
quote:
That's a whole lot of speculation and drawing conclusions.
Of course it is. But what else is there?
Are there things that you know with 100% confidence regarding this war? I'd love to hear them if you do.
Unfortunately, most of us are relegated to listening to the govt and to the media (both suspect). When it comes to media we can go listen to opposing views. There are actually lots of things said by our govt that no credible media has refuted with verifiable facts.
The points I listed are things I'm willing to believe until proven false. Based on those beliefs, I support the actions we are taking. But I can definitely be swayed with verified counter information. Not to the point where I'll suddenly wish I voted for K Harris. Not to the point where I'd support a G Newsome over Vance or Rubio. But my opinion on this war CAN be swayed.
The thing is, I don't expect it to be swayed until the war is ended. And even then, there will be lies and suspect information, unfortunately.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:51 am to kingbob
quote:
These are all true. Still not great justification to use American taxpayer dollars and American soldiers to instigate a war in Iran.
If you believe those things to all be true, then what would you have done differently? How would you justify NOT taking direct military action?
I guess I'm saying that the only "justification" I've seen for not taking action is from those who advocate for doing the same thing we've been doing for decades. Of course, those people will say that's not true... but they never offer a coherent alternative solution.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:55 am to deuceiswild
quote:
These comments seem somewhat contradictory. Especially since above, you said you agree that they'd use a nuclear weapon if they had one.
Did I? If I made statements that led anyone to believe that I think they would actually use nukes, I apologize. I do not think they would use them. They are no more suicidal than the USSR was and they were the greatest threat to ever use nuclear weapons.
Nukes do ensure nations do not become future targets in the empire building game. See India, Pakistan, N. Korea, etc. They are now on a more equal playing field diplomatically. Iran has already gone through one regime change with a puppet government at our hands. I am sure the current powers there do not want another. Whether this is good for us or not is another discussion entirely.
quote:
This one doesn't make sense to me. I think maybe you misunderstood what I said? If not, then how would you explain their actions for the last few decades? Many of their actions are meant to cause economic harm to us, and to the world. Not to mention the killing of Americans
As stated above, we have already had them under our thumb as a puppet state. How would anyone feel about that? We also align ourselves with Israel and they wholely want the Greater Israel Project to come true. Part of Iran is in that Greater Israel.
As far as economic harm to us? What can they honestly do to the greatest economic power of all time? Is everyone pursuing their own economic interests purposefully trying to harm us?
As far as the saber rattling of "Death to America" goes, it doesn't bother me much. Saber rattling is what they do. We do similar with "lock her up" and other stuff. Granted to a much different extreme. But the majority of this board has no problem killing all of them...even after the civilians put their lives on the line to save just one of our pilots. Messaging here is "frick 'em, bomb 'em more". Are we really any different?
This post was edited on 4/6/26 at 9:56 am
Posted on 4/6/26 at 9:55 am to deuceiswild
quote:
The thing is, I don't expect it to be swayed until the war is ended. And even then, there will be lies and suspect information, unfortunately.
I probably land more on the neutral but suspect part of the spectrum right now. My whole life has been the US involved in foreign wars on sketchy speculation. I like Trump because of his anti-ME foreign war position. So maybe there is some big intel that they haven't released yet that will show that it was truly imminent, but it seems closer to not than so.
How and when this gets wrapped up will ultimately determine if it was the right call or not.
Posted on 4/6/26 at 10:00 am to deuceiswild
quote:
• Iran, at some point soon, would have had a large enough arsenal of conventional weapons to prevent anyone from stopping them from rebuilding their nuclear enrichment capabilities.
This one is absurd. There is no arsenal Iran could build that could make them invulnerable to us. Even without nukes, we could level the entire country.quote:Maybe and if they think it's a big enough threat, they should have. Without us.
• Israel was going to bomb Iran with or without us.
quote:Not a chance.
• If we didn’t participate, our bases in the ME would have been hit
Posted on 4/6/26 at 10:01 am to Powerman
quote:
Reigned in the Israelis and prevent the initial attack and allowed negotiations to continue
They deserve some autonomy but if they're going to be reliant on the United States for security they should not be allowed to attack a nation with the damaging capabilities of Iran on a whim without our approval
How would you propose getting Israel to buy off on our suggestion on holding back? They're the ones in direct line of fire, and surrounded by other countries who don't like them much either. What if they said no to us? Do think that in this universe we can tell them we will not support them? If we did, do you not see how that becomes WWIII? They'd immediately be attacked by more than just Iran if we refused involvement. We simply have no option but to support them (which sucks), unless you're okay with Israel potentially being destroyed. Honestly, I've considered Israels destruction as a potential solution. Either them, or a few other ME countries being destroyed. But personally, I think other countries being destroyed is the better option.
Any ideas on what we could have offered Iran in your continued negotiations? How long should the negotiations be allowed to continue? Or, what would be Powerman's "line in the sand" to end negotiations and take action?
Posted on 4/6/26 at 10:04 am to Powerman
quote:
And we have now given them the perfect reason why they should acquire them for deterrence
C,mon, man. Is that why they want nukes? Because we attacked them?
You're saying there was a chance to voluntarily stop their nuke acquisition ambitions before we attacked?
I was trying to take you seriously, but really?
Posted on 4/6/26 at 10:10 am to kingbob
quote:
1. Will cease gifting them American weapons (we’ll still sell them, but no free foreign aid anymore)
2. Will refuse to offer any military assistance to intercept missiles that aren’t threatening our military assets in the region.
3. Will actively publicly condemn Israeli aggression in Iran and Lebanon.
Basically, I would communicate clearly that they’re alone on this one, so proceed at their own caution.
I will acknowledge the possibility of such a strong response to Israel COULD have been successful. But I have my doubts. They are the ones in the direct line of fire. And they're surrounded by a few other countries who'd also love to see them wiped off the map.
If we did that, Israel would be attacked by more than just Iran, IMO, and our bases in the ME would still be targeted. This would be closest to WWIII as you can get. Isreal would have to strongly consider using nukes of its own in this situation.
quote:
I would also communicate to the IRGC, in no uncertain terms, that if they sink a single American vessel as a reprisal against an Israeli attack which we publicly condemn, we will glass the entire country. I mean full scale nuclear holocaust, all 90 million vaporized, salt the earth, just obliterate the whole damn thing, murder every civilian, reduce every building to rubble, make the Nazis and Communists shudder at our capacity for pure unadulterated evil and unchecked power.
This, IMO, is dumb. And I doubt the neighboring countries would appreciate this very much.
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