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re: When did our culture quit producing men that would “do what’s right”?
Posted on 9/21/19 at 10:42 am to SquatchDawg
Posted on 9/21/19 at 10:42 am to SquatchDawg
I suspect when women joined the workforce, then families broke down, then moms had to be both Mom and Pop.
Sperm donors don't add anything positive to society.
Doing what's right is never considered.
Sperm donors don't add anything positive to society.
Doing what's right is never considered.
1
Posted on 9/21/19 at 10:47 am to SquatchDawg
I don't know but we have passed the point of no return.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 11:35 am to SquatchDawg
Your whole thread is based on accepting the party line.
First trained in church as children. Take it on faith.
First trained in church as children. Take it on faith.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 11:57 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
This isn’t “situational ethics” and is exactly what I was talking about.
The thing is you don't know what you're talking about. That is situational (Jewish family targeted for extermination) ethics (lying is bad).
Here's a Harvard video series where that *exact* same ethical conundrum is discussed.
Harvard Ethical Course
Interestingly enough, the professor teaching this course seems to be a proponent of Kantianism, the idea that right is always right and wrong is always wrong (the same sentiment you mentioned in the OP).
quote:
Also - on the 10 commandments at least half of them are pretty basic rules that are more societal than religious - stealing, killing, adultery; honor your parents, etc. Seems pretty apparent that these are important.
My critique was that there not the foundation of Western Values, as less than half made it into law. The remaining ones that did (don't steal, kill, etc.) are virtually universal laws espoused by cultures that were founded long before Judeo-Christian values reached their borders. "Don't kill" and "don't steal" isn't unique to Christianity and has predated it in many cultures.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:00 pm to Flats
quote:
By your worldview there’s nothing wrong or right with that.
You have it backwards, according to the Christian worldview that's perfectly acceptable since God is perfect.
I have the ability to argue against that sort of behavior because I don't subscribe to the idea that God is perfect.
You're locked to a position lest you abandon God's perfection, I'm not.
This post was edited on 9/21/19 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:06 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Nope, I think it's wrong
But you think it's wrong the same way somebody thinks almond butter is better than peanut butter. You acknowledge up front that there's no objective right or wrong, so you may as well be arguing about a color preference for a car.
I get nihilism rationally; it's the only conclusion for the honest atheist. But as I said earlier, I've never met anybody who actually lives or even discusses things like they actually believe it.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:10 pm to Flats
quote:
But you think it's wrong the same way somebody thinks almond butter is better than peanut butter.
1.) At least I have the ability to think its wrong, Christians have to accept that its right since their God is perfect.
2.) It's not so much in the same way that someone thinks almond butter is better than peanut butter. It's more like almond butter is better than dog shite. The vast vast vast majority of people will think that its wrong to slaughter tens of thousands of innocent children because of the actions of their nation's leader. You're talking 99.99% to .01% sort of polling.
So yes, its certainly subjective, in much the same way almond butter > dog shite is subjective.
quote:
You acknowledge up front that there's no objective right or wrong, so you may as well be arguing about a color preference for a car.
It's more complicated than that, though. Car color, while subjective, has tons of objective angles to work from. Some colors are cooler than others, some stand out more than others, hide dirt and grim better than others.
You have subjective opinions about society, but if you want a prosperous, peaceful, etc. society only certain behavioral norms will allow for that. Just like only certain car colors will yield the results you're looking for.
This post was edited on 9/21/19 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:11 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Nazi's are asking if you are hiding any Jews, do you lie or tell the truth?
Isn't there a difference between lying and bearing false witness?
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:14 pm to Flats
quote:
But you think it's wrong the same way somebody thinks almond butter is better than peanut butter. You acknowledge up front that there's no objective right or wrong, so you may as well be arguing about a color preference for a car.
Christianity does exactly the same thing. They simply transfer authority to a god instead.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:17 pm to Azkiger
quote:
So yes, its certainly subjective,
Exactly. So why do you feel the need to justify your opinion with appeals to the majority or talking about dog shite? Subjective is subjective.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:21 pm to Gus007
quote:
Isn't there a difference between lying and bearing false witness?
Possibly, there's been a lot of cultures spanning lots of time so I'm sure there might be slight differences between those two terms.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:22 pm to Flats
quote:
So why do you feel the need to justify your opinion with appeals to the majority or talking about dog shite?
Because apparently some people think that dog shite and almond butter are on par with one another because "subjectivity".
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:23 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
Where did we lose this? I watch politics and it almost seems like a game of get away with what you can and laugh it off if you get caught. We continue to vote in crooks and moral reprobates to govern us. Idiots and scumbags that are celebrated.
It’s always largely been this way. The people in power were able to convince the lower/middle classes to think in black and white and always do the right thing. If you make people act this way, they are very easy to control. In our lifetime, the internet helped open our eyes. Now that the internet is being robbed of these qualities (corporations buying all news sites, free speech platforms like 8 Chan being shut down, etc.), we may slingshot back to a naive and certain confidence.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:25 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Christianity does exactly the same thing. They simply transfer authority to a god instead.
Agreed, while I will admit I don't have access to some objectively moral source, neither do Christians.
See: The Euthyphro’s Dilemma
EDIT: Spelling correction.
This post was edited on 9/21/19 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:30 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
When did our culture quit producing men that would “do what’s right”?
There's plenty of us still here.
I work my arse off all day, go home, take care of my kids and wife, care for my house, etc...
I don't have time or energy to scream all day about bullshite so neither me nor my kids make the news.
There is a large silent majority out there.
Don't be fooled by the extremely vocal psychotic minority.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:34 pm to Gus007
quote:
Doing what's right is never considered.
Everyone considers whats right by their view.
Their values do not suit you. Thats all.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:37 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:When Al Gore invented the internet.
When did our culture quit producing men that would “do what’s right”?
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:43 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Because apparently some people think that dog shite and almond butter are on par with one another because "subjectivity".
And I still haven't met a nihilist who actually believes what he says. You claim you don't believe in objective morality but you really, really want a basis to criticize the values of Christians (or whoever disagrees with you) so you try to fence sit on "subjective". Well, yeah, it's subjective, but my subjective view is like almond butter and yours is like dog shite. Did you learn that from a Harvard video?
And it's Euthyphro.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 12:48 pm to Flats
quote:
but you really, really want a basis to criticize the values of Christians (or whoever disagrees with you) so you try to fence sit on "subjective".
Nope, I can even point to Christianity's own standards and show how they're inconsistent. That's the beauty of critiquing a bronze age belief system.
quote:
Well, yeah, it's subjective, but my subjective view is like almond butter and yours is like dog shite.
Just to get things on the record, you think that its perfectly moral to kill thousands of children because of the actions of their nation's leader?
quote:
And it's Euthyphro.
Yep, not sure what the hell autocorrect changed it to. I have fat fingers and have saved a lot of misspellings.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 1:14 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Nope, I can even point to Christianity's own standards and show how they're inconsistent.
So? This is all subjective, remember? The only thing you can say is that in your opinion inconsistency is bad, but that's just like, your opinion, man.
quote:
Just to get things on the record, you think that its perfectly moral to kill thousands of children because of the actions of their nation's leader?
This is easy; it's a question of authority. If I tell you I want to give you my truck, and the key fob's inside, so just go by and pick it up, you can do that. If I say nothing of the sort, and you go by and take my truck, then that's an entirely different moral action.
It's quite rational to believe that if this is all God's creation, that God has the authority to do what he wants with it. I don't, because it's not my creation, but God does.
I like the "bronze age" comment. You forgot "magic sky man", "invisible friend", and a host of other Dawkins-lite phrases that edgy types like to use.
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