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re: When a lesbian comes out of the closet; not what you're thinking tho
Posted on 2/27/20 at 10:30 pm to beerJeep
Posted on 2/27/20 at 10:30 pm to beerJeep
quote:You said child cancer was evil. You didn't say why you thought it was evil. I'm asking for your justification for your moral judgement against child cancer.
I already said. Use your eyes. Read. Then use your brain to comprehend what you read.
quote:It didn't, but even if it did (it didn't), how do you justify objective evil in a random and unguided universe?
The Big Bang created the universe.
quote:Evolution didn't create anything as it's an unguided process, and evolution in terms of origins is as unscientific as it gets since you can't test it or reproduce it due to the long time scales required.
Evolution created children.
But even so, same question as above: how do you get an objective moral standard to condemn anything as evil in your naturalistic worldview? How is cancer evil if it's simply a byproduct of evolutionary processes?
quote:Quite a faith statement there.
No such thing. When you die, you die. That’s it dude.
quote:Again, quite the faith statement.
You can make believe and believe what you want. Idgaf. But at the end of the day, when you die, you will experience the exact same thing you did before you were born.
Absolutely nothing.
quote:Logically impossible due to the law of non-contradiction. All religions could be wrong, one could be right, but all can't be right out of logical necessity as they all teach different things about the universe, God's existence, our existence, and the nature of things including the afterlife (if they teach one).
Oh. And have fun in all the other hells you will burn in.
1
Posted on 2/27/20 at 10:36 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You said child cancer was evil. You didn't say why you thought it was evil. I'm asking for your justification for your moral judgement against child cancer.
Inflicting a terminal illness on a child is the same as if someone walked up and killed the child.
quote:
I'm asking for your justification for your moral judgement against child cancer.
I find it weird that you find child cancer holy.
quote:
didn't, but even if it did (it didn't), how do you justify objective evil in a random and unguided universe?
Yes. Yes it did.
Know what Didn’t happen? God creating the universe in 7 days.
quote:
Evolution didn't create anything as it's an unguided process, and evolution in terms of origins is as unscientific as it gets since you can't test it or reproduce it due to the long time scales required.
yes. I guess we were just snapped into existence Do you think the earth is a couple thousand years old too? Dinosaurs never existed?
quote:
But even so, same question as above: how do you get an objective moral standard to condemn anything as evil in your naturalistic worldview? How is cancer evil if it's simply a byproduct of evolutionary processes?
If it is evolutionary, it’s natural. If god inflicted it upon a child (you know, since god controls everything so if a child has cancer, it’s because god WANTS thst kid to have cancer) it’s evil. Just as if I kill a child it’s evil.
quote:
Quite a faith statement there.
Faith would be believing their is something after. Being a realist is knowing that we simply die and rot away.
quote:
Logically impossible due to the law of non-contradiction. All religions could be wrong, one could be right, but all can't be right out of logical necessity as they all teach different things about the universe, God's existence, our existence, and the nature of things including the afterlife (if they teach one).
How do you not know that god has multiple faces which spawned each religion? Therefore every religion is right and none are wrong?
What makes your god right and not Islam? Why not Zeus? Why not Jupiter? Why not Amun? Why not ra?
The reality of it is, we live. We die. That’s it.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 10:48 pm to beerJeep
quote:But again, why is this evil in your worldview?
Inflicting a terminal illness on a child is the same as if someone walked up and killed the child
quote:I don't find child cancer holy. I find God holy and all people to be sinful.
I find it weird that you find child cancer holy.
But you didn't answer the question. What's your justification for your moral judgement against child cancer? You seem to be avoiding the question as I've asked it multiple times now without a direct response.
quote:Nope, the BBT cannot explain the universe as we experience it, but God can. Beside the point, though. I'm really trying to understand the justification for your moral outrage at child cancer in a universe with no purpose or objective moral standards.
Yes. Yes it did.
Know what Didn’t happen? God creating the universe in 7 days.
quote:Not snapped into existence. Spoken.
yes. I guess we were just snapped into existence
Do you think the earth is a couple thousand years old too? Dinosaurs never existed?
I believe the earth to be thousands of years old, not billions, but it's again beside the point. I want to know why you have moral outrage in your worldview, regardless of the age of the earth or universe.
Dinosaurs existed. Why your moral outrage against cancer?
quote:If evolutionary origins are true, there is no objective evil, whether it be cancer or murder. There would also be no basis for you to condemn anything--such as the belief that God gives and takes away (even with cancer)--as evil.
If it is evolutionary, it’s natural. If god inflicted it upon a child (you know, since god controls everything so if a child has cancer, it’s because god WANTS thst kid to have cancer) it’s evil. Just as if I kill a child it’s evil.
So why do you think it's evil in your worldview?
quote:So you don't think you take the "nothingness" theory on faith? How do you justify that it's not a faith claim on your part?
Faith would be believing their is something after. Being a realist is knowing that we simply die and rot away.
quote:Logic is part of the mind of God and therefore contradictions can't exist within God. If God were the "face" of every religion, not only would He be a liar but He'd also be contradicting Himself given that the tenets of the various religions contradict each other.
How do you not know that god has multiple faces which spawned each religion? Therefore every religion is right and none are wrong?
Logically speaking, they all can't be right.
quote:Only the Biblical/Christian God provides the necessary preconditions for intelligibility. The other gods do not.
What makes your god right and not Islam? Why not Zeus? Why not Jupiter? Why not Amun? Why not ra?
quote:Again with the faith statement. You seem to be a person who doesn't appreciate faith statements so it's odd to me that you keep repeating one.
The reality of it is, we live. We die. That’s it.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:05 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
What's your justification for your moral judgement against child cancer? You seem to be avoiding the question as I've asked it multiple times now without a direct response.
I’ve given that to you. Multiple times. I’m sorry you let the Holy Spirit cloud your mind.
quote:
really trying to understand the justification for your moral outrage at child cancer in a universe with no purpose or objective moral standards.
Again. Follow. Closely.
If a god inflicts a child with cancer. That is evil.
If there is no god (there isn’t) then child cancer is natural and not evil.
It becomes evil when you have a benevolent being inflicting malice on a child simply because it feels like killing that kid.
You’re a fruit cake kid. God isn’t real. You will not meet him upon your death.
The only thing that will happen to you once you die, is worms will eat out your eyes while the earth reclaims you.
You live in a fantasy and it’s kinda sad. Especially with all this real, tangible, factual evidence that completely contradicts god.
Hey dinosaurs! Hey earth that’s been around for millions of years!
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:27 pm to beerJeep
I am a believer in Our Lord and believe in the Big Bang and theistic evolution.
There is a lot of us out there. Evolution does not disprove God.
The Big Bang is a creation event that shows that the universe had a starting point. Which is helpful to build a case for God. Carry on. Foo I would be interested in talking to you in PM you are great at sharing without losing cool.
There is a lot of us out there. Evolution does not disprove God.
The Big Bang is a creation event that shows that the universe had a starting point. Which is helpful to build a case for God. Carry on. Foo I would be interested in talking to you in PM you are great at sharing without losing cool.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:38 pm to beerJeep
quote:You haven't. You have only said that it would be evil for God to inflict a child with cancer. You haven't said why it would be evil.
I’ve given that to you. Multiple times. I’m sorry you let the Holy Spirit cloud your mind.
quote:Why?
Again. Follow. Closely.
If a god inflicts a child with cancer. That is evil.
quote:Looks like we're getting somewhere. What about rape or murder? Still trying to understand your justification for morality in your worldview.
If there is no god (there isn’t) then child cancer is natural and not evil.
quote:Why is that evil again?
It becomes evil when you have a benevolent being inflicting malice on a child simply because it feels like killing that kid.
Also, why do you assume it's malice, unjustified malice, or because "it feels like killing that kid"? Do you believe the Biblical God acts on a whim?
quote:You're a sinner in need of salvation. God is real and the world wouldn't be intelligible if He weren't and we all will meet Him upon our deaths. Some in glory and some in everlasting destruction. Repent and trust in Christ's sacrifice for sin.
You’re a fruit cake kid. God isn’t real. You will not meet him upon your death.
quote:How do you know this to be true? Is it merely a faith statement on your part?
The only thing that will happen to you once you die, is worms will eat out your eyes while the earth reclaims you.
quote:What evidence contradicts God? Did you know that creationists have access to the same data as evolutionists? It's an issue of interpretation based on worldviews.
You live in a fantasy and it’s kinda sad. Especially with all this real, tangible, factual evidence that completely contradicts god.
What you don't have is a philosophical justification for your naturalistic atheism. I have one.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:43 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Looks like we're getting somewhere. What about rape or murder? Still trying to understand your justification for morality in your worldview.
What about em?
quote:
Also, why do you assume it's malice, unjustified malice, or because "it feels like killing that kid"? Do you believe the Biblical God acts on a whim?
There is no god so it doesn’t matter
quote:
You're a sinner in need of salvation. God is real and the world wouldn't be intelligible if He weren't and we all will meet Him upon our deaths. Some in glory and some in everlasting destruction. Repent and trust in Christ's sacrifice for sin.
Nope. Ima human. We live. We frick. We die.
That’s it.
quote:
How do you know this to be true? Is it merely a faith statement on your part?
Because it’s a fact. Death is the exact same as prebirth.
Nothing.
quote:
What evidence contradicts God? Did you know that creationists have access to the same data as evolutionists? It's an issue of interpretation based on worldviews. What you don't have is a philosophical justification for your naturalistic atheism. I have one.
The world. The universe. Reality. History. Science.
There is no grand meaning. Nothing matters. We exist to frick and die. Live your life. Then you die. The world moves on.
You’re scared of life being meaningless so you seek to find meaning. Nothing wrong with that. But there is a lot wrong with denying reality.
This post was edited on 2/27/20 at 11:45 pm
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:44 pm to aubie101
quote:foomanchoo[dot]UGA[at]gmail[dot]com
Foo I would be interested in talking to you in PM you are great at sharing without losing cool.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:49 pm to FooManChoo
Cool
Posted on 2/28/20 at 12:01 am to beerJeep
quote:Would you consider those acts morally wrong or "evil" in your worldview, and what is your justification for saying so if you think they are immoral?
What about em?
quote:There is a God and He will judge sin, either in Christ or in us.
There is no god so it doesn’t matter
But it does matter to the discussion since you made the claim, I'd like to understand why you think that way. I believe you are operating off of a false premise in regards to the natures of God and man in biblical theology.
quote:You're a sinful human. You live. You sin. You die. You are judged for your sins.
Nope. Ima human. We live. We frick. We die.
That’s it.
That is unless you trust in Christ for forgiveness for your sins.
quote:How do you justify this as a fact? Have you observed death?
Because it’s a fact. Death is the exact same as prebirth.
Nothing.
quote:I can provide a justification for why all of those things only make sense in the Christian worldview.
The world. The universe. Reality. History. Science.
Like I said, it goes back to interpretation based on your underlying presuppositions. I can account for the reality we experience with my governing presuppositions.
quote:That's a very fatalistic view you have. I hope you don't live your life that way.
There is no grand meaning. Nothing matters. We exist to frick and die. Live your life. Then you die. The world moves on.
quote:I'm not scared of life being meaningless because I know it's not. It's not simply a hope.
You’re scared of life being meaningless so you seek to find meaning. Nothing wrong with that. But there is a lot wrong with denying reality.
I'm also not denying reality. I know that reality exists of immaterial things that can't be accounted for by your materialistic worldview. You can't even live consistently within your own worldview.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 12:17 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Would you consider those acts morally wrong or "evil" in your worldview, and what is your justification for saying so if you think they are immoral?
Mostly wrong, always an exception. My justification is they go against self preservation.
If I kill you for no reason, the chances of me being killed go up.
quote:
There is a God and He will judge sin, either in Christ or in us.
Nope. We live. We frick. We die. The world moves on.
quote:
How do you justify this as a fact? Have you observed death?
Death is death.
quote:
That's a very fatalistic view you have. I hope you don't live your life that way.
It’s a realistic view.
We are put on earth to keep our species going. Our only biological goal in life is to reproduce.
That’s it. Nothing more. We are here to frick. So our kids can frick. And our kids kids can frick. And our kids kids kids can frick.
Our ancestors existed to frick for the sole purpose of ensuring you get here to frick.
quote:
You can't even live consistently within your own worldview.
Certainly I can, and I do.
I exist to keep the species going. The same reason you exist.
One day, I will die.
Humanity will live on. Earth will live on.
Time will go on.
I will cease to exist. Just as I did before I was born.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 12:18 am to FooManChoo
So my curiosity forced me to click page 10 of this thread to see why in the world people could still be talking/arguing about lesbians coming out of the closet.
However after reading this last page I have to say that Foo you do a magnificent job of laying out reasons for faith to an atheist in a seemingly calm and logical manner. Very well done!
BeerJeep I pray that you find your way spiritually in this life.
However after reading this last page I have to say that Foo you do a magnificent job of laying out reasons for faith to an atheist in a seemingly calm and logical manner. Very well done!
BeerJeep I pray that you find your way spiritually in this life.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 6:02 am to FooManChoo
quote:
FooManChoo
You've done your job; it's up to them and God
Posted on 2/28/20 at 1:12 pm to FooManChoo
quote:you already said in a prior post that we had no ability to know if God was good or not so there's really no need to read the rest of your crap
I do know that God is good
Posted on 2/28/20 at 1:16 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
FooManChoo
Literally nothing you have said in this thread wouldn't be just as true if God exists but is evil
You can't overcome that logical reality no matter how much you try
Posted on 2/28/20 at 1:54 pm to ShortyRob
quote:Please link.
you already said in a prior post that we had no ability to know if God was good or not so there's really no need to read the rest of your crap
quote:You must not have been reading.
Literally nothing you have said in this thread wouldn't be just as true if God exists but is evil
You can't overcome that logical reality no matter how much you try
You need to submit yourself to Jesus Christ as lord and to embrace Him as savior before it is too late. He is the only way to the Father.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 2:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:I was. And, it ain't no accident this response is short from you. Because you know it's true.
You must not have been reading.
Every word you've typed is just as applicable of God is Evil.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 2:37 pm to ShortyRob
quote:It's not true and I spent quite a bit of time on it already. I'm getting tired of repeating myself when you've shown time and time again that either your reading comprehension is woefully lacking or your worldview makes you twist my words in such a way that you don't even understand their meaning.
I was. And, it ain't no accident this response is short from you. Because you know it's true.
quote:It's not, for reasons I've already stated. If God were evil, we couldn't trust anything, even our own senses, and reality as we know it wold be unintelligible.
Every word you've typed is just as applicable of God is Evil.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 2:59 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Extortion? You really need to learn something about Christian theology before you attempt to attack it.
I'm not attacking it, you're proselytizing me, and I'm simply telling you why it won't take.
It IS extortion. "If you don't worship God, you will suffer His Wrath for Eternity." That's extortion, and any submission would have to be considered under duress.
I don't want to worship some wrathful God. First of all, wrath is an emotion of biological beings constrained by space-time. It is not something a trans-dimensional creator of the universe would exhibit. Second, I was taught Wrath was a sin. I would rather not worship a sinner.
quote:
Jesus obeyed every aspect of the law perfectly
No he didn't he exhibited the sin of wrath with the money changers.
quote:
if you believed I was going to to Hell...what is your basis for saying so?
Your own admission of being repentant only when you're aware of your sin, and that you are not worthy of God's Grace.
quote:
Clearly you don't understand the seriousness of what He went through.
I probably understand it more than you, having had a near death experience myself. I didn't think to ask God why he had forsaken me, however.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 3:20 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Nah. Not really.
It's not true and I spent quite a bit of time on it already
You have said that God is the only reason we even have the concept of good and evil. To which I say, "OK, that doesn't actually tell us on which end he is. If he can define good and evil from the good side, he can from the evil side too".
Sorry. You can't overcome that and you know it.
quote:OK. And? How exactly does this dictate that he isn't evil.
If God were evil, we couldn't trust anything, even our own senses,
Maybe you can't do any of those things? Actually, there's no maybe about it. You can't. This has been documented repeatedly. Our senses are HIGHLY limited. They're so limited, that tons of shite in our world, we can't even see without technological help.
Certainly, an evil omnipotent being could fool little old you into thinking your senses are valid. Or, are you saying you could resist God's power?
This post was edited on 2/28/20 at 3:23 pm
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