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Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:07 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Gun registration for first 5 years of ownership at zero cost. Subsidies on gun safes and gun locks. Universal background check. Adults who had a juvenile criminal record are required to wait until 21 and get approval from local sheriff before buying. Same for adults that required full or semi hospitalization as a child or were noted to have violent tendencies by a mental health professional. Approval would be a clean bill of mental health.
Nothing at all for actual criminals?? Nothing?
Just more bullshite registration criminals aren’t f’n gonna do? More wasted legislation?
Why do leftists not wanna punish GUN CRIMES? Actual crimes. None of this trigger lock bs. Substantive legislation that punishes criminals.
Why not? The right is on board. Give us a reason.
Is it really more of a liberal want to free criminals and then hate guns? Freeing criminals who return to their previous activities takes precedence over “meaningful” gun legislation?
This post was edited on 4/19/22 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:08 pm to roadGator
quote:
My guns are lazy AF.
They refuse to get off their asses and kill people.
Please don't ban me for this but you must have a lot of black guns
Sorry I know but it was just sitting there for me
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:10 pm to Wtodd
Almost all of them are black except for the a400 Smurf gun.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:13 pm to mmcgrath
All of those only hurt people that don’t commit crimes.
And yay, a radical leftist wants to grow fed gov more.
Shocking.
Gun crimes would drop dramatically if dem voters were not allowed to possess firearms.
And yay, a radical leftist wants to grow fed gov more.
Shocking.
Gun crimes would drop dramatically if dem voters were not allowed to possess firearms.
This post was edited on 4/19/22 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:16 pm to tadman
Enforce the law
Stop turning criminals back on the street
Put their asses in jail for extended periods of time with hard labor.
Stop turning criminals back on the street
Put their asses in jail for extended periods of time with hard labor.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:17 pm to CleverUserName
Gun registration for first 5 years of ownership at zero cost.
So a national registry. What could go awry there. Open a book.
Subsidies on gun safes and gun locks.
Lets encourage gun storage in drawers.
Universal background check.
there are already background checks. if youre of the mind of "closing the gun show loophole" good luck regulating private exchanges.
Adults who had a juvenile criminal record are required to wait until 21 and get approval from local sheriff before buying.
They have to wait until 21 to get pistols (the guns used in the vast majority of crimes) anyway. whats the difference? burdening our police with more paper?
Same for adults that required full or semi hospitalization as a child or were noted to have violent tendencies by a mental health professional. Approval would be a clean bill of mental health.
clean bill of mental health - as evidenced by the drug dependency?
FFS dude
So a national registry. What could go awry there. Open a book.
Subsidies on gun safes and gun locks.
Lets encourage gun storage in drawers.
Universal background check.
there are already background checks. if youre of the mind of "closing the gun show loophole" good luck regulating private exchanges.
Adults who had a juvenile criminal record are required to wait until 21 and get approval from local sheriff before buying.
They have to wait until 21 to get pistols (the guns used in the vast majority of crimes) anyway. whats the difference? burdening our police with more paper?
Same for adults that required full or semi hospitalization as a child or were noted to have violent tendencies by a mental health professional. Approval would be a clean bill of mental health.
clean bill of mental health - as evidenced by the drug dependency?
FFS dude
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:40 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Gun registration for first 5 years of ownership at zero cost.
Subsidies on gun safes and gun locks.
Universal background check.
Adults who had a juvenile criminal record are required to wait until 21 and get approval from local sheriff before buying.
Same for adults that required full or semi hospitalization as a child or were noted to have violent tendencies by a mental health professional. Approval would be a clean bill of mental health.
Let me explain why none of that would work.
quote:
Gun registration for first 5 years of ownership at zero cost.
Why does any law abiding citizen who just passed your background check need to be registered? You're registering law abiding citizens. They're not the problem.
quote:
Subsidies on gun safes and gun locks.
Gun locks are terrible. Try getting one off without affecting the trigger or muzzle direction then try to imagine doing it under stress.
Gun safes are great but they do not deter criminals. YouTube has numerous videos showing how gun safes can be defeated in a matter minutes with just a crowbar.
quote:
Adults who had a juvenile criminal record are required to wait until 21 and get approval from local sheriff before buying.
The problem there is what constitutes a juvenile criminal record. For about 25 years now anyone convicted of a domestic misdemeanor loses 2A rights. Those crimes are not uniform and what gets one convicted in one state wouldn't have charges in another state.
quote:
Same for adults that required full or semi hospitalization as a child or were noted to have violent tendencies by a mental health professional. Approval would be a clean bill of mental health.
So does some one who reads and studies weapons has violent tendencies?
Here's the deal. Gun control always fails because it only targets either the weapon or a law abiding citizen.
California has assault weapons and pretty much any semi auto rifle and shotgun banned, magazine restriction to hunting capacity, registration, waiting periods, no shall issue carry, ammo buying restrictions, a handgun roster that effectively prohibits new handguns and even requires any new handgun approved must have the manufacturer remove a current handgun. They are now pushing that schools must be notified if a child lives in a home with firearms. California has just about everything gun control advocates want. Texas has none of those and both states have nearly identical murder rates.
Then there is DC. A wealthy city and area. One of the most wealthiest in the country and they have every restriction you can imagine. Only FFL is allowed and he works in the police station. You have to undergo every check,certificate to purchase, safe storage like you advocated for, no semi autos, definitely no NFA and only revolvers.
And DC is always violent city. It's more violent than surrounding areas that have less restrictions.
And all that mentioned is just tip of why gun control fails and fails spectacularly at times.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:45 pm to roadGator
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/25/22 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:51 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Gun registration for first 5 years of ownership at zero cost.
Subsidies on gun safes and gun locks.
Universal background check.
Adults who had a juvenile criminal record are required to wait until 21 and get approval from local sheriff before buying.
Same for adults that required full or semi hospitalization as a child or were noted to have violent tendencies by a mental health professional. Approval would be a clean bill of mental health.
The OP stated useful, you drooling retard.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 12:59 pm to tadman
The dems push gun control as crime control while they let criminals take over the streets and undermine the police.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:00 pm to tadman
Ok, I got this. You want real, useful firearms control:
reform the approach to NICs. Repeal NFA guidance on SBR/SBS and suppressors
1.Our current NICs system is doesn’t work because all of the reporting requirements and penalties are on the FFL holder and none are placed on those agencies that are tasked with with making the NICs databases useful.
A. How NICs works: When you purchase a firearm (without a bypass) you provide the FFL holder with identifying information that is transmitted to the ATF NICs call centers. That information is entered into 2 of 3 databases and return a proceed, delayed, or denied. If you are delayed it generally means they were unable to identify you via automated searches and your case must be reviewed by a human to determine your identity.
NICs provides a case number on every check they preform and the FFL holder is required to retain all paperwork, subject to audit by ATF agents. Record retention is to be done in order by date. Firearm transfer paperwork is ATF Form 4473 and must be retained for a minimum of 25 years. It is the property of the ATF and subject to surrender without warrant only to the ATF. FFL holders are also required to keep and maintain a bound book. A bound book is the physical record of every firearm brought in or released out of the FFLs “possession”. This record has the date received, make model and importer(when present), serial number, caliber, type, where or who it was released to, and the ID number from the 4473. Failure to follow 4473 or boundbook standards or retention rules can lead to a fine, imprisonment, lose of FFL (federal Firearm License).
2.What’s in the databases and where does that information come from? The databases that actually allow the ATF to determine if you are legally allowed to own a firearm are full of information about you. Information is collected by courts and medical records to determine if you are legally allowed to possess a firearm. If you are a convicted felon, convicted of drug or family crimes or dishonorably discharged from the military or have been legally declared mentally incompetent then you can’t possess a firearm. But unlike FFL holders those reporting bodies have no obligation or consequences to accurately report in a timely manner the information required for those databases.
3.The compromise solution. Require those that submit data to the ATF NICs databases to face the same obligations and consequences as the FFL holders that rely on that data. A boundbook must be updated with 48 hours, the 4473s must be filed within 72 hours or completion so the reporting agencies need to see similar standards. Mental health providers and courts should be required to submit data within 72 hours, records should be keep to an ATF standard with audits and penalties. Those penalties need to consist of fines, imprisonment, and loss of accreditation. Military courts and records, law enforcement, mental health providers, and courts should have an obligation to to provide data to the ATF in a timely manner and their records should be subject to an ATF standard as well as subject to a yearly ATF audit, the same standards as FFL holders.
4.The non compromise solution. Abolish the NICs as it is inefficient and unnecessary with few to no standards or prosecutions beyond FFL holders.
NFA guidelines for SBR/SBS and suppressors is outdated and rooted in fear.
1.the raise in popularity or pistol braces has demonstrated that SBR/SBS guidelines are not needed. Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns are defacto our reality with no discernible negative impact. The technology has over a decade of court battles and some pretty silly ATF guidance (you can have it but you cannot shoulder it) rewrites. It’s time to acknowledge what we all already know. SBR/SBS firearms are no more dangerous than their counterparts. The extra record keeping, 200.00 stamp, inheritance issues, and where you can and cannot take them is outdated and needs to be struck.
2. Suppressors are not a danger to the public, it’s time to remove them from NFA guidelines. Suppressors have taken off in popularity as the technology has become viable and economically feasible for the average person. We have established that they do not work they do in movies, they do not silence firearms but they do reduce noise pollution and harm. We were set to remove them from NFA before the Vegas shooter made positive firearm legislation toxic. The reasons to remove them was the right decision then and it’s the right decision now.
3.non compromise solution. Repeal all NFA legislation. If we cannot agree on the current reality then we remove all legislation on the matter via other means. That would more accurately reflect the intent of the second amendment in allowing universal ownership of any and all implements of war with price being the only limitation. Full auto, explosive, burst, all bets are off.
You want useful legislation here it is. Meets the modern reality of our situation, addresses concerns from both sides of the issue and completely pleases neither side.
reform the approach to NICs. Repeal NFA guidance on SBR/SBS and suppressors
1.Our current NICs system is doesn’t work because all of the reporting requirements and penalties are on the FFL holder and none are placed on those agencies that are tasked with with making the NICs databases useful.
A. How NICs works: When you purchase a firearm (without a bypass) you provide the FFL holder with identifying information that is transmitted to the ATF NICs call centers. That information is entered into 2 of 3 databases and return a proceed, delayed, or denied. If you are delayed it generally means they were unable to identify you via automated searches and your case must be reviewed by a human to determine your identity.
NICs provides a case number on every check they preform and the FFL holder is required to retain all paperwork, subject to audit by ATF agents. Record retention is to be done in order by date. Firearm transfer paperwork is ATF Form 4473 and must be retained for a minimum of 25 years. It is the property of the ATF and subject to surrender without warrant only to the ATF. FFL holders are also required to keep and maintain a bound book. A bound book is the physical record of every firearm brought in or released out of the FFLs “possession”. This record has the date received, make model and importer(when present), serial number, caliber, type, where or who it was released to, and the ID number from the 4473. Failure to follow 4473 or boundbook standards or retention rules can lead to a fine, imprisonment, lose of FFL (federal Firearm License).
2.What’s in the databases and where does that information come from? The databases that actually allow the ATF to determine if you are legally allowed to own a firearm are full of information about you. Information is collected by courts and medical records to determine if you are legally allowed to possess a firearm. If you are a convicted felon, convicted of drug or family crimes or dishonorably discharged from the military or have been legally declared mentally incompetent then you can’t possess a firearm. But unlike FFL holders those reporting bodies have no obligation or consequences to accurately report in a timely manner the information required for those databases.
3.The compromise solution. Require those that submit data to the ATF NICs databases to face the same obligations and consequences as the FFL holders that rely on that data. A boundbook must be updated with 48 hours, the 4473s must be filed within 72 hours or completion so the reporting agencies need to see similar standards. Mental health providers and courts should be required to submit data within 72 hours, records should be keep to an ATF standard with audits and penalties. Those penalties need to consist of fines, imprisonment, and loss of accreditation. Military courts and records, law enforcement, mental health providers, and courts should have an obligation to to provide data to the ATF in a timely manner and their records should be subject to an ATF standard as well as subject to a yearly ATF audit, the same standards as FFL holders.
4.The non compromise solution. Abolish the NICs as it is inefficient and unnecessary with few to no standards or prosecutions beyond FFL holders.
NFA guidelines for SBR/SBS and suppressors is outdated and rooted in fear.
1.the raise in popularity or pistol braces has demonstrated that SBR/SBS guidelines are not needed. Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns are defacto our reality with no discernible negative impact. The technology has over a decade of court battles and some pretty silly ATF guidance (you can have it but you cannot shoulder it) rewrites. It’s time to acknowledge what we all already know. SBR/SBS firearms are no more dangerous than their counterparts. The extra record keeping, 200.00 stamp, inheritance issues, and where you can and cannot take them is outdated and needs to be struck.
2. Suppressors are not a danger to the public, it’s time to remove them from NFA guidelines. Suppressors have taken off in popularity as the technology has become viable and economically feasible for the average person. We have established that they do not work they do in movies, they do not silence firearms but they do reduce noise pollution and harm. We were set to remove them from NFA before the Vegas shooter made positive firearm legislation toxic. The reasons to remove them was the right decision then and it’s the right decision now.
3.non compromise solution. Repeal all NFA legislation. If we cannot agree on the current reality then we remove all legislation on the matter via other means. That would more accurately reflect the intent of the second amendment in allowing universal ownership of any and all implements of war with price being the only limitation. Full auto, explosive, burst, all bets are off.
You want useful legislation here it is. Meets the modern reality of our situation, addresses concerns from both sides of the issue and completely pleases neither side.
This post was edited on 4/19/22 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:03 pm to tadman
We need to pass a law that makes is illegal to break the law.
This would end all crime.
This would end all crime.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:06 pm to tadman
quote:
What would truly useful gun legislation look like?
This works fine for me:
quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:09 pm to tadman
Use RICO on street gangs, lock everybody up in a street gang for murder is any of them commit a murder
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:26 pm to tadman
Outlaw "Gun Free Zones" at public facilities, thereby eliminating automatic "soft target" designations.
And as others have said, mandate serious enhancements to punishments for crimes committed with firearms.
And as others have said, mandate serious enhancements to punishments for crimes committed with firearms.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:28 pm to tadman
quote:Have DAs enforce the laws on the books.
So if you had a chance to write the legislation on a clean sheet, what do you do?
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:30 pm to tadman
Send everyone over 18 with no convictions a Glock 19 with 500 rounds. That’s my legislation.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:33 pm to ChatRabbit77
quote:
Thomas Massie
Love the guy, but there are too few like him. Far too few.
Posted on 4/19/22 at 1:39 pm to tadman
quote:
What would truly useful gun legislation look like?
To erase any and all laws that already INFRINGE on our right.
That's the only acceptable legislation
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