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re: What would happen if we completely got out of Russia Ukraine conflict?
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:34 am to prplhze2000
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:34 am to prplhze2000
During WW2 when we had blockaded the japanese and were starving them to death, we decided to speed it up and perfected firebombing cities of civilians. LeMay would send in planes loaded with cluster bombs of napalm, perfect of the little homes made of wood and tar. About an hour later the second wave of planes would arrive with traditional cluster bombs.....to kill all the rescue workers and firefighters.
He bombed every city in Japan, some many times....well except three (two targets and one extra). He was ordered to leave them alone for when we dropped something "special".
You see all this nonsense about whether to drop the bomb or not was just that, once the first person arrived at Los Alamos the die was set.
All this shat talk about cruel Russia, you best not be tossing stones my friend, a lot of the stuff happening in wars now......we taught them how to do it.
He bombed every city in Japan, some many times....well except three (two targets and one extra). He was ordered to leave them alone for when we dropped something "special".
You see all this nonsense about whether to drop the bomb or not was just that, once the first person arrived at Los Alamos the die was set.
All this shat talk about cruel Russia, you best not be tossing stones my friend, a lot of the stuff happening in wars now......we taught them how to do it.
1
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:38 am to LSURussian
quote:
Putin wants Ukraine's sovereignty nullified so that Ukraine becomes a vassal state to Russia.
They are a vassal state of the US now.
quote:
Russia conducted mass executions of Ukrainians then and will do so again.
We goaded them into this war where over 20% of their population has left, more than a million casualties, and their economic and demographic future ruined.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:43 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
It's totally unacceptable that our tax dollars continue to fund Ukrainian government and basic services. frick that. THAT isn't what I voted for.
90% of Americans dont realize this. We have doge trying to cut costs here, while we are paying all the civil servants in ukraine.
Bernie Sanders is screaming about social security....while he voted for us to pay for the pensions of ukranians.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:46 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
The war would end. The EU can't afford it's own defense without the US paying our fair share to NATO, much less supplying Ukraine with weapons and money. If the EU would start spending thier fair share, the couldn't afford thier massive welfare support for their illegals. The mud people would revolt!
Annnddd they got a wee little problem with tariffs to boot. I love how they have "pledged" billions, just like they pledged 2% for NATO, and pledged billions for climate dictatorship.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:51 am to Tigergreg
quote:
They would likely stop after taking Ukraine. I doubt they try to advance into Poland because (1) NATO, and yes, we would get involved and Putin knows it and (2) Russia will have too many casualties to pursue any further.
They would stop after Ukraine because their country is war weary and impoverished. Poland is off limits because Poland is a serious country which would tear Russia apart new a-hole if exhausted Russia made an attempt on Poland while in its current condition. Also, Russia would attempt nothing to its west because the US would not tolerate that. Russia’s next move, 5 to 10 years down the road, would be Kazakstan for its oilfields, or possibly Armenia/Azerbaijan on religious protection reasons (and to get the Caspian oilfields).
This post was edited on 4/20/25 at 5:51 am
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:53 am to Chief One Word
quote:
I thought Trump pulled all of Ukraine's funding??
I believe it is, but there was some money accrued. I think the crucial timing is the fact sometime in June they will run out of US weaponry and Europe, for all the pomp and circumstance, aint providing shat in the way of enough hardware to make a difference.
Thats why zelensky is getting yippy. The weapons run out, the Russians run over them, and his own people will mussolini him and that shopaholic wife. And I would hope when he runs to his US bought vineyard in Tuscany that they drag his arse back to ukraine for trial.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:54 am to trinidadtiger
quote:
All this shat talk about cruel Russia, you best not be tossing stones my friend, a lot of the stuff happening in wars now......we taught them how to do it.
tossing stones? WTf?
Are you trying to compare Russia's invasion of Ukraine to Japan's Pearl Harbor sneak attack??
Posted on 4/20/25 at 5:58 am to Leopold
quote:
and we hold on to 30-year-old Bradley's with half a dozen combat tours that have no real other practical value for us while we continue to pay for their maintenance, upkeep, housing, etc. costing us taxpayer money. So, we save a few bucks and the bad guys still lose.
Let me explain this one more time. Congress approved 100s of billions for ukraine. That money has been spent.
Now if we were just sending them old junk, why did we spend the money. "Well silly goose its because we had to replace the weaponry". Okay if we had to replace the weaponry........wouldnt that come out of the original 900 billion dollar military budget???????????????
So we sent them old stuff ANNNNNNNNDDDDDD hundreds of billions of dollars of new stuff.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 9:16 am to trinidadtiger
We were also funding their govt payroll retirement etc when that runs out shite will hit the fan.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 12:20 pm to ChatGPT of LA
What would happen if we completely got out of Russia Ukraine conflict?
the conflict would end immediately once all of the cia and us funds/resources were removed from ukraine
the conflict would end immediately once all of the cia and us funds/resources were removed from ukraine
Posted on 4/20/25 at 3:59 pm to trinidadtiger
quote:
quote:
The war would end. The EU can't afford it's own defense without the US paying our fair share to NATO, much less supplying Ukraine with weapons and money. If the EU would start spending thier fair share, the couldn't afford thier massive welfare support for their illegals. The mud people would revolt!
Annnddd they got a wee little problem with tariffs to boot. I love how they have "pledged" billions, just like they pledged 2% for NATO, and pledged billions for climate dictatorship
True. So think about it..... Our tax dollars, US citizens tax dollars, subsidies the EU welfare state. They spend money on welfare for illegals that should be spent on their military.
It's ridiculous and needs ro cease.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 4:07 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
what then?
Putin installs a puppet government that has Ukraine join the EEAU, and he maintains control over Crimea.
quote:
How would the US be hurt by that
No more than if we just stopped supporting Israel and let the Arabs take it over.
...or if we stopped supporting Taiwan and just let China take it over.
...or if we just stopped supporting South Korea and just let North Korea take it over.
...and kind of how we stopped supporting South Vietnam and let North Vietnam take over.
...and how we stopped supporting Cuba and let the Communists take over.
But for the last 85 years the US has been the world's largest exporter of arms. I don't expect that to end any time soon.
Posted on 4/20/25 at 4:11 pm to prplhze2000
And how is this America’s problem?
Posted on 4/21/25 at 12:24 pm to wdhalgren
quote:
Which key ally? And what obvious threat are we not acknowledging? The threat to the US is fighting and financing a war we can't afford and shouldn't be involved in
The obvious threat is Putin/Russia. The guy who has
- openly declared the US as an 'enemy': LINK
- a long history, both on a personal and geopolitical level, of fighting against us.
- thousands of nuclear missiles, many of whom are pointed directly at us.
- attacked us multiple times using proxy forces in the form of Wagner and other countries
- stated that he wants an empire from Lisbon to Vladivostok, which would go right through our committed allies in Europe
As a result, Ukraine could (emphasis on 'could') become a key alley when dealing with a facist/mafia state that has shown it's open, unapologetic cruelty in this invasion. Of course, gaining another alley, one that is paying dearly in blood and treasure to do our dirty work and is thus proving its willingness to become a state that shares common goals, would require vision, something we seem to be sorely lacking in right now.
As far as paying for this, the answer is yes, we absolutely can afford to send them M113's from the Vietnam-era, F-16's from the 'Top Gun' movie era, Bradley's from the Gulf War era, and Bradley's from the GWOT era. And we absolutely can afford to send them state-of-the-art Air Defense systems that let us know if they are capable of shooting down Russian (read CHINESE) aircraft as we prepare for a possible conflict in Southeast Asia. Sending them the outdated systems save us a few pennies, in fact, and sending them the new stuff is vital to make sure it actually works.
The good news?
They sure as hell do.
Therefore the smart play is to back the Ukrainians and kick the sh!t out of the Russians.
Posted on 4/21/25 at 4:25 pm to Leopold
So the question in the OP was this
and you said
and then I agreed and asked what obvious threat the US is ignoring.
So you did a complete 180 and turned Putin into an obvious threat to not only the Ukraine, but also Europe and the US via his nuclear arsenal, which is "pointed directly at us". You're contradicting yourself. Putin's not going to attack Europe because he's not strong enough as you accurately pointed out earlier. He couldn't invade and take Europe and he couldn't hold it if he did. And Putin is very unlikely to attack the US with nukes unless we continue to provoke him by using Ukraine as a proxy to attack Russia. That definitely will increase the likelihood of a nuclear event.
Finally, you may not understand but the US has borrowed ourselves into such a deep hole that we're nearing a financial catastrophe. Prolonging a war with Russia and provoking something bigger, while China is watching and waiting, is a very bad idea. We need full attention and resources devoted to getting us out of these dire financial straits and war does just the opposite.
quote:
What would happen if we completely got out of Russia Ukraine conflict?
and you said
quote:
I argue Russia is too far in and too weak to finish the deal; they aren't taking over the Ukraine - they don't have the manpower, resources, leadership, will, etc. So, the Ukrainians will continue to kick the hell out of them for some time
and then I agreed and asked what obvious threat the US is ignoring.
So you did a complete 180 and turned Putin into an obvious threat to not only the Ukraine, but also Europe and the US via his nuclear arsenal, which is "pointed directly at us". You're contradicting yourself. Putin's not going to attack Europe because he's not strong enough as you accurately pointed out earlier. He couldn't invade and take Europe and he couldn't hold it if he did. And Putin is very unlikely to attack the US with nukes unless we continue to provoke him by using Ukraine as a proxy to attack Russia. That definitely will increase the likelihood of a nuclear event.
Finally, you may not understand but the US has borrowed ourselves into such a deep hole that we're nearing a financial catastrophe. Prolonging a war with Russia and provoking something bigger, while China is watching and waiting, is a very bad idea. We need full attention and resources devoted to getting us out of these dire financial straits and war does just the opposite.
This post was edited on 4/21/25 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 4/22/25 at 12:15 am to wdhalgren
No, there is no contradiction. A wounded, possibly dying threat is still a threat, and considering he is doing things like interfering in our elections, openly threatening nuclear war, and attempting to take over Ukraine through other means outside of just military he is absolutely a threat - even Trump points to this when discussing threats to the Arctic region and mentioning Russia among them.
EDIT: Here is a 4* being briefed by the Senate Armed Services Committee stating basically the same thing:
Russia Will Remain a Threat Despte a Defeat
And I'm perfectly aware of our financial situation. As stated earlier, dumping unwanted and outdated military items on a potential ally who will use them to wear out our second largest geopolitical rival makes very strong fiscal sense, especially because China is watching. Honestly, the biggest message we can send to China right now is to have Russia lose on the battlefield to a smaller, weaker neighbor who doesn't have the historic, geographic, and political advantages Taiwan does - Ukraine and Zelensky's success fighting back may be the biggest reason as to why we aren't at war with China right now.
And Ukraine didn't 'attack' Russia. Whatever one thinks of the US's political maneuverings, the Ukraine didn't attack Russia, isn't doing so currently, and didn't deserve to be invaded and slaughtered over nothing more than a cheap landgrab.
EDIT: Here is a 4* being briefed by the Senate Armed Services Committee stating basically the same thing:
Russia Will Remain a Threat Despte a Defeat
And I'm perfectly aware of our financial situation. As stated earlier, dumping unwanted and outdated military items on a potential ally who will use them to wear out our second largest geopolitical rival makes very strong fiscal sense, especially because China is watching. Honestly, the biggest message we can send to China right now is to have Russia lose on the battlefield to a smaller, weaker neighbor who doesn't have the historic, geographic, and political advantages Taiwan does - Ukraine and Zelensky's success fighting back may be the biggest reason as to why we aren't at war with China right now.
And Ukraine didn't 'attack' Russia. Whatever one thinks of the US's political maneuverings, the Ukraine didn't attack Russia, isn't doing so currently, and didn't deserve to be invaded and slaughtered over nothing more than a cheap landgrab.
This post was edited on 4/22/25 at 1:09 am
Posted on 4/22/25 at 12:46 am to Leopold
All this shat talk about cruel Russia, you best not be tossing stones my friend, a lot of the stuff happening in wars now......we taught them how to do it.
Japan attacked us. What Japan did to China was barbaric. They would have done the dame to us if they had the chance. So, wtf is your point. Russia invaded Ukraine. Stalin killed millions of people. They need no lessons in killing.
Japan attacked us. What Japan did to China was barbaric. They would have done the dame to us if they had the chance. So, wtf is your point. Russia invaded Ukraine. Stalin killed millions of people. They need no lessons in killing.
Posted on 4/22/25 at 12:51 am to ChatGPT of LA
A similar question is: what if we cut off all big pharma companies from making ineffective COVID vaccines but left Pfizer alone? This is our money laundering/global cabal problem, and it doesn't go away if we don't fix it. Our shadow govt, 3 letter agency entities created this mess. We could walk away, and the corrupt moneys would work right back into our political system and ruin our foreign policy in a matter of months, not years. The real problem trails right back into our lawmakers, corrupt judges, etc. I'm all for trending more isolationalist, but we are part of the global problem than we would like to admit.
Posted on 4/22/25 at 1:11 am to Goforit
quote:
All this shat talk about cruel Russia, you best not be tossing stones my friend, a lot of the stuff happening in wars now......we taught them how to do it.
Japan attacked us. What Japan did to China was barbaric. They would have done the dame to us if they had the chance. So, wtf is your point. Russia invaded Ukraine. Stalin killed millions of people. They need no lessons in killing.
I'm sorry, what?
Posted on 4/22/25 at 6:22 am to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
What would happen if we completely got out of Russia Ukraine conflict?
What would happen to them, or what would happen to us?
Us: we would be working our way toward fiscal solvency rather than economic collapse.
Them: I really don’t give a single damn. We’re broke.
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