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re: What is the liberal explanation for why college costs have exploded?
Posted on 3/2/19 at 3:43 pm to bmy
Posted on 3/2/19 at 3:43 pm to bmy
quote:Absurdity.
Bipartisan effort to create a generation of debt slaves
That generation would fricking burn DC down if someone proposed backing off student loan availability. And, that generation would also shite bricks if someone proposed attaching logical value to how much money is loaned for particular degrees. AND, that generation would shite bricks if someone proposed pruning away some of the more absurdly niche areas of study that are barely more than an academic version of going to ITT.
Your whining MIGHT have credibility if you didn't 100% support the fricking debt policies.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 3:49 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Absurdity.
That generation would fricking burn DC down if someone proposed backing off student loan availability. And, that generation would also shite bricks if someone proposed attaching logical value to how much money is loaned for particular degrees. AND, that generation would shite bricks if someone proposed pruning away some of the more absurdly niche areas of study that are barely more than an academic version of going to ITT.
Your whining MIGHT have credibility if you didn't 100% support the fricking debt policies.
That generation has only been voting for 3-4 election cycles and had pretty much zero say in legislation that was passed.
It was their parents and grandparents idea.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 3:54 pm to VOR
quote:
You just had to slip something in there about black people and diversity. It’s like an obsession and you couldn’t resist. T I’d like to see data ( the actual data) that supports your argument about administrative costs.
I'm on my phone at the moment but when I'm back in front of a desktop I'll provide plenty of data. It's not exactly hidden information. The vast majority of new administrative positions are in progressive-liberal realms. A few decades ago there were no "diversity deans". Now almost every university has a diversity center, complete with a dean, cadre of staff, and all the administrative personnel that goes with it.
My wife is a professor at a small university here in the Northwest. Her campus's diversity center is a three story building with a staff of 24 full time workers. Their operating budget is larger than the college of business. In the coming two years there will be a dedicated $2M for "diversity education" programs, which will result in a $760 a semester increase in each student's tuition. This is happening over and over at schools across the country.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 3:56 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Conservatives have their explanation: monumental increase in easy money access and loans incentivizes schools to hike prices
The rising cost of college education directly maps federal backed student loans and grants.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:11 pm to bmy
quote:Yes. Democrats of their parent/grandparent generation pushed and passed the stupidity but today's college kids still 100% support those stupid policies and in fact, want them EXPANDED.
That generation has only been voting for 3-4 election cycles and had pretty much zero say in legislation that was passed. It was their parents and grandparents idea.
You can't gripe when you support it.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:12 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Yes. Democrats of their parent/grandparent generation pushed and passed the stupidity but today's college kids still 100% support those stupid policies and in fact, want them EXPANDED.
You can't gripe when you support it.
It was just dems?

Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:15 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Prices go up in direct response to the ability to charge the price.
People are only going to pay for products that:
1)are in demand (like crazy accomodations).
2)they can pay for (but not necessarily afford).
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:21 pm to bmy
quote:
It was just dems?
You think conservatives have anything to do with running higher education?
When leftists are beaten in an argument that is when you hear the both sides bullshite.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:26 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Broadly, university costs are rising across the board because of the following reasons:
1. Subsidized loans and no risk assessment mechanism for those loans. It's been said in this thread before, but it needs to be repeated: a cheap and easy supply of money for university education means that there is virtually no resource rationing mechanism in the university-lender relationship. In addition, there is no interest rate mechanism that accounts for expected future income - a sociology major has the same access and interest rate as an accounting or chemical engineering major even though their projected salaries will be quite different.
2. Quite simply, demand for American higher education is still extremely high. Domestically, despite what all the "become a welder and make six figures, baw" types will have you believe, the expected lifetime earnings for a university-educated person still far, far outstrip those without degrees on average. The most recent data I saw was that college grads earn, on average, about $1 million more over the course of their lives than non-college grads (link). Because that is still the case and will likely be well into the future, in a way, universities are raising prices because they realize they still have significant pricing power because of that difference. As an extreme example, the Ivys and places like University of Chicago, Duke, Stanford, and the like could probably charge triple or more of what they currently do, and those degrees would still be worth it for marginal difference in lifetime income; universities that are still good but maybe not quite that caliber have that same pricing power, though to an obviously lesser degree.
Add on the fact that American universities are still seen as the crown jewel of the world and golden ticket outside of the country, and demand has sustained itself pretty much unabated.
3. Somewhat related to #2, but universities remain (and probably will continue to do so) the de facto certification process for most of the professional world. You have to have a B.S. or B.A. to even get in the door at any professional company. Until that changes (and it might be, but very slowly), demand won't really change much.
4. University education is like healthcare (for the most part) and housing in that it is not a tradeable good. There is very little international competition for American higher education, and supply has remained relatively flat, especially at the more elite levels of the system. If you could produce university educations in China and ship them over by the millions, price would probably be a lot more competitive. But you can't, so it doesn't happen.
1. Subsidized loans and no risk assessment mechanism for those loans. It's been said in this thread before, but it needs to be repeated: a cheap and easy supply of money for university education means that there is virtually no resource rationing mechanism in the university-lender relationship. In addition, there is no interest rate mechanism that accounts for expected future income - a sociology major has the same access and interest rate as an accounting or chemical engineering major even though their projected salaries will be quite different.
2. Quite simply, demand for American higher education is still extremely high. Domestically, despite what all the "become a welder and make six figures, baw" types will have you believe, the expected lifetime earnings for a university-educated person still far, far outstrip those without degrees on average. The most recent data I saw was that college grads earn, on average, about $1 million more over the course of their lives than non-college grads (link). Because that is still the case and will likely be well into the future, in a way, universities are raising prices because they realize they still have significant pricing power because of that difference. As an extreme example, the Ivys and places like University of Chicago, Duke, Stanford, and the like could probably charge triple or more of what they currently do, and those degrees would still be worth it for marginal difference in lifetime income; universities that are still good but maybe not quite that caliber have that same pricing power, though to an obviously lesser degree.
Add on the fact that American universities are still seen as the crown jewel of the world and golden ticket outside of the country, and demand has sustained itself pretty much unabated.
3. Somewhat related to #2, but universities remain (and probably will continue to do so) the de facto certification process for most of the professional world. You have to have a B.S. or B.A. to even get in the door at any professional company. Until that changes (and it might be, but very slowly), demand won't really change much.
4. University education is like healthcare (for the most part) and housing in that it is not a tradeable good. There is very little international competition for American higher education, and supply has remained relatively flat, especially at the more elite levels of the system. If you could produce university educations in China and ship them over by the millions, price would probably be a lot more competitive. But you can't, so it doesn't happen.
This post was edited on 3/2/19 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:35 pm to bmy
quote:
It was just dems?
Federal student loan expansion was absolutely dem driven
Sheesh. You guys can't take responsibility for anything you frick up
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:39 pm to CollegeFBRules
quote:
quote: clamp on student loans at for-profit institutions (think DeVry)
quote:
Boy, they were really aiming at the heart of the problem, weren’t they?
When for-profit institutions account for half of the delinquencies, then yes..
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:43 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Classic demand driven inflation due to ability to kick costs down the road with loans. Parents expect their little Brayden to be VP of IBM in 5 years with a degree from State U.
This post was edited on 3/2/19 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 3/2/19 at 4:46 pm to ShortyRob
Let's be honest, here. The Democrats might've pushed for easy money student loans, but Republicans across the country haven't minded reaping the rewards.
For instance, Texas. Tuition was deregulated to allow colleges to milk the federal teat as hard as possible.
For instance, Texas. Tuition was deregulated to allow colleges to milk the federal teat as hard as possible.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 5:04 pm to CollegeFBRules
quote:
Show me the last Republican or “conservative” that did anything to squash this problem
Mitch Daniels, Purdue
Wikipedia
Tuition freezes and cost reductions
Edit
The total cost of attending Purdue has fallen since Daniels assumed Purdue's presidency, despite a trend at Big Ten institutions of rising costs. Total loan debt among the student body has also fallen 30% or $55 million.[120] Tuition at Purdue, prior to Daniels' arrival had increased every year since 1976.[121] Two months after Daniels assumed his role as president, Purdue announced it would freeze tuition for two years, eventually extending the freeze for six years, through 2019. As a result, multiple graduating classes have become the first in at least 40 years to leave Purdue having never experienced a tuition increase,[122][123] in-state tuition is more than $1,000 lower than if the university had raised rates at the national average, and students and families have saved more than $226 million in educational expenses.[124]
Posted on 3/2/19 at 5:28 pm to ChEgrad
That is absolutely fantastic. I didn’t see anything saying he was a Republican or Democrat, but whatever he is, that is a fantastic model.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 5:41 pm to CollegeFBRules
He was the Republican governor of Indiana before his stint at Purdue and was, at one time, a legit favorite to get the Republican Presidential nomination.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 5:42 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
"CONSERVATIVES DONT VALUE INVESTING IN EDUCATION"""""
Posted on 3/2/19 at 6:11 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I’m not a liberal, but I have a prospective that most people don’t see everyday. My wife has been a professor for over 10 years(almost 11).
1. States are giving less money to public schools each year. In Missouri only two public universities were in the black last year.
2. If a new professor is hired today they start out about $10,000 less than she did 11 years ago. Colleges don’t pay teachers more most campuses are saving money on new hires. They save even more money by hiring 2 or 3 adjuncts instead of one new professor.
3. Prices for students continue to increase because it cost more for basic things(electric, sewage, food etc...).
There are many other reasons why prices continue to increase, but the main reason is cost living increases for colleges
1. States are giving less money to public schools each year. In Missouri only two public universities were in the black last year.
2. If a new professor is hired today they start out about $10,000 less than she did 11 years ago. Colleges don’t pay teachers more most campuses are saving money on new hires. They save even more money by hiring 2 or 3 adjuncts instead of one new professor.
3. Prices for students continue to increase because it cost more for basic things(electric, sewage, food etc...).
There are many other reasons why prices continue to increase, but the main reason is cost living increases for colleges
Posted on 3/2/19 at 6:14 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
There are many other reasons why prices continue to increase, but the main reason is cost living increases for colleges
This is not true. If cost of living increases were the main factor, tuition would mirror it. It has outpaced it dramatically.
Posted on 3/2/19 at 6:33 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I can tell you in CA at state universities retired professors can receive over $110k in pension benefits annually, that will have some bearing on rising tuition costs,
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