- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Was Hitler just a response to what Germany saw going on in Russia?
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:27 am to Mohican
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:27 am to Mohican
a little secret about nazis
quote:
According to a popular misconception, the Nazis must have been on the political right because they persecuted communists and fought a war with the communists in Russia. This specious logic has gone largely unchallenged because it serves as useful propaganda for the left, which needs ``right-wing'' atrocities to divert attention from the horrific communist atrocities of the past century. Hence, communist atrocities have received much less publicity than Nazi war crimes, even though they were greater in magnitude by any objective measure. R. J. Rummel of the University of Hawaii documents in his book Death by Government that the two most murderous regimes of the past century were both communist: communists in the Soviet Union murdered 62 million of their own citizens, and Chinese communists killed 35 million Chinese citizens. The Nazi socialists come in third, having murdered 21 million Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians and others. Additional purges occurred in smaller communist hellholes such as Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea, Ethiopia, and Cuba, of course. Communism does more than imprison and impoverish nations: it kills wholesale. And so did ``national socialism'' during the Nazi reign of terror.
quote:
But the history of the past century has been grossly distorted by the predominantly left-wing media and academic elite. The Nazis have been universally condemned -- as they obviously should be -- but they have also been repositioned clear across the political spectrum and propped up as false representatives of the far right -- even though Hitler railed frantically against capitalism in his infamous demagogic speeches. At the same time, heinous crimes of larger magnitude by communist regimes have been ignored or downplayed, and the general public is largely unaware of them. Hence, communism is still widely regarded as a fundamentally good idea that has just not yet been properly ``implemented.'' Santayana said, ``Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'' God help us if we forget the horrors of communism and get the historical lessons of Nazism backwards.
quote:
According to a popular misconception, the Nazis must have been on the political right because they persecuted communists and fought a war with the communists in Russia. This specious logic has gone largely unchallenged because it serves as useful propaganda for the left, which needs ``right-wing'' atrocities to divert attention from the horrific communist atrocities of the past century. Hence, communist atrocities have received much less publicity than Nazi war crimes, even though they were greater in magnitude by any objective measure. R. J. Rummel of the University of Hawaii documents in his book Death by Government that the two most murderous regimes of the past century were both communist: communists in the Soviet Union murdered 62 million of their own citizens, and Chinese communists killed 35 million Chinese citizens. The Nazi socialists come in third, having murdered 21 million Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians and others. Additional purges occurred in smaller communist hellholes such as Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea, Ethiopia, and Cuba, of course. Communism does more than imprison and impoverish nations: it kills wholesale. And so did ``national socialism'' during the Nazi reign of terror.
quote:
But the history of the past century has been grossly distorted by the predominantly left-wing media and academic elite. The Nazis have been universally condemned -- as they obviously should be -- but they have also been repositioned clear across the political spectrum and propped up as false representatives of the far right -- even though Hitler railed frantically against capitalism in his infamous demagogic speeches. At the same time, heinous crimes of larger magnitude by communist regimes have been ignored or downplayed, and the general public is largely unaware of them. Hence, communism is still widely regarded as a fundamentally good idea that has just not yet been properly ``implemented.'' Santayana said, ``Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'' God help us if we forget the horrors of communism and get the historical lessons of Nazism backwards.
2
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:27 am to Mohican
Hitler’s primary concern was the elimination of Jews and other undesirables. He saw communism as a result of Jews controlling Russia.
If it was about defeating communism, when the Germans started losing the war, they would’ve diverted a lot of the resources away from the holocaust to help the war effort. They did the opposite and continued rounding up and killing Jews instead and in many cases accelerated their effort.
Hitler’s goal wasn’t the elimination of communism. The Nazi party itself was a socialist movement. They wanted to sanitize the world. Not out of fear but out of disgust. If you fear something you run from it. But if you’re disgusted by it you annihilate it.
This is obvious by the treatment of the French/British vs Polish/Russians.
If it was about defeating communism, when the Germans started losing the war, they would’ve diverted a lot of the resources away from the holocaust to help the war effort. They did the opposite and continued rounding up and killing Jews instead and in many cases accelerated their effort.
Hitler’s goal wasn’t the elimination of communism. The Nazi party itself was a socialist movement. They wanted to sanitize the world. Not out of fear but out of disgust. If you fear something you run from it. But if you’re disgusted by it you annihilate it.
This is obvious by the treatment of the French/British vs Polish/Russians.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:30 am to Mohican
NAZIs were socialists.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:30 am to Mohican
Yes
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:34 am to Fat Bastard
quote:
propped up as false representatives of the far right -- even though Hitler railed frantically against capitalism
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:34 am to rmnldr
quote:
Hitler’s primary concern was the elimination of Jews and other undesirables. He saw communism as a result of Jews controlling Russia.
This is nonsense. Hitler's primary concern - especially in the early 1930s, was the restoration of the German State - A vision that was perceived, by the Nazis, to be most threatened by the Jewish Marxists inside Germany. A belief which quickly evolved into genocide of the Jewish population. But the genocide wasn't itself the goal
This thread isn't about Hitler's aspirations, it's about the condition that allowed Hitler's fascism to attain power.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:35 am to Caplewood
The Dems are the real Nazis!
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:35 am to joshnorris14
quote:
Your analysis doesn't explain why Germany didn't fall to the rising Communists who also predicted economic turmoil
Hindenburg saw it happening and the Nazi party with the SA was seen as the only force that could stop an uprising.. so the government worked with Hitler
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:36 am to Mohican
Hitler himself wasn't a response to what was going on in Russia, but it's the second biggest reason he took power. The Treaty of Versailles is the primary reason for Hitler being taken seriously and for him taking power.
That being said, it's clear these Antifa idiots have no knowledge of history. Hitler didn't appear out of a vacuum. They claim that no one was there to oppose and stop Hitler. Yes there were, and the were called the Reds.
Plus the Weimar government tried to stop him, and they were pathetic but not entirely there own fault. Here was a devastating provision to the Treaty of Versailles France and Britain didn't think through: the negative effects of limiting Germany's military to 100,000 men. Both the Reds and Brownshirts had more men than this, so they were able to easily overwhelm the local military forces, so that's another reason they took power.
Many sane people thought the Nazis were batshit crazy, but at least they weren't the communists, so they voted their archenemies into power. The Left doesn't realize this, but they have now gone so insane that the sane moderates now don't want anything to do with them, see 2017-2019 as pretty good times, and are going to vote Trump back into the office using the same reasoning the Germans did voting the Nazis into power. And no, I'm not saying Trump is remotely the same policy wise, but I am saying that Antifa and it's supporters are the same as the Reds back in the early 30s.
That being said, it's clear these Antifa idiots have no knowledge of history. Hitler didn't appear out of a vacuum. They claim that no one was there to oppose and stop Hitler. Yes there were, and the were called the Reds.
Plus the Weimar government tried to stop him, and they were pathetic but not entirely there own fault. Here was a devastating provision to the Treaty of Versailles France and Britain didn't think through: the negative effects of limiting Germany's military to 100,000 men. Both the Reds and Brownshirts had more men than this, so they were able to easily overwhelm the local military forces, so that's another reason they took power.
Many sane people thought the Nazis were batshit crazy, but at least they weren't the communists, so they voted their archenemies into power. The Left doesn't realize this, but they have now gone so insane that the sane moderates now don't want anything to do with them, see 2017-2019 as pretty good times, and are going to vote Trump back into the office using the same reasoning the Germans did voting the Nazis into power. And no, I'm not saying Trump is remotely the same policy wise, but I am saying that Antifa and it's supporters are the same as the Reds back in the early 30s.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:37 am to joshnorris14
Because the communists were beaten into submission by the brown shirts and Goebbels in Berlin. The SA won the street fight against them. Earst Rohm was very good at that before Himmler and the SS with Hitler's blessing took him out. Hitler let the S.A. clear the streets of the communists but took them out when he viewed them as a threat to him and his image of being a legitimate political leader and party. Himmler and the SS viewed them as a rival and the army viewed them as a threat. Hitler secured the army leadership by eliminating the SA.
Remember when the Reistastag was burned, it was pinned on a young Dutch communist. That did not help the popularity of the communists. Hitler used that to get Hindenberg to sign the Fire Decree in 33. Hitler used it after it was signed to finish wiping the floor with them.
Remember when the Reistastag was burned, it was pinned on a young Dutch communist. That did not help the popularity of the communists. Hitler used that to get Hindenberg to sign the Fire Decree in 33. Hitler used it after it was signed to finish wiping the floor with them.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:37 am to Jspaspa3303
The Communist International street fighters, Antifa, also spent as much of their time fighting the liberal democrats of the Wiemar Republic as they did the Nazis because Stalin hated real elections as much or more than he hated National Socialists.
I've begun to wonder if we should have just let the Nazis and Communists just keep fighting it out without our material help to Stalin. The USSR was vast and would have bogged down and drained the German military over time.
I've begun to wonder if we should have just let the Nazis and Communists just keep fighting it out without our material help to Stalin. The USSR was vast and would have bogged down and drained the German military over time.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:38 am to Mohican
The option of communism or fascism was a pretty common one in depression era Europe.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:39 am to AU86
quote:
Because the communists were beaten into submission by the brown shirts and Goebbels in Berlin.
This happened after what I'm asking.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:39 am to joshnorris14
quote:
This is nonsense. Hitler's primary concern - especially in the early 1930s, was the restoration of the German State
It’s not nonsense. The fact you think it’s nonsense proves you know damn near nothing about Nazism. The restoration of the Reich required a sanitization or the people who “sold out” Germany in WWI. It’s all in Mein Kampf.
The whole purpose of his rise was for lebenstraum and that required killing the millions of “undesirables” who lived on those lands.
quote:
This thread isn't about Hitler's aspirations, it's about the condition that allowed Hitler's fascism to attain power.
The two are inseparable. My point is that the rise of Hitler had damn near nothing to do with Soviet Russia and had all to do with the “undesirables” being purged from the German state and onward. Hitler preached about this all the time. You don’t know history.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:39 am to Mohican
No it was a reaction to the hyper-inflation of the Weimar Republic.
My mother grew up in Nazi Germany. She mentioned that Hitler repeatedly promised jobs, and he delivered on that promise. Of course he did it via the military-industrial complex.
But when you have such a buildup, you feel the need to use it. The myth is he simply wanted to reunite all the nearby German-speaking peoples in one country (except he had no interest in the ones living in Italy due to his partnership with Mussolini).
My mother grew up in Nazi Germany. She mentioned that Hitler repeatedly promised jobs, and he delivered on that promise. Of course he did it via the military-industrial complex.
But when you have such a buildup, you feel the need to use it. The myth is he simply wanted to reunite all the nearby German-speaking peoples in one country (except he had no interest in the ones living in Italy due to his partnership with Mussolini).
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:40 am to Mohican
quote:
Then we get into a chicken vs egg argument. Was Trump the agitating force or a response to it?
I can answer that one: he is the response to it. Trump was a weapon created by the Left that the Right stole and used against them. I really think the snapping point for Republicans was the treatment of Mitt Romney with "He's going to put y'all back in chains".
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:40 am to Zach
quote:
Both he and the Japanese underestimated America's industrial power to mobilize and innovate in weapons production so quickly.
It truly was a real modern marvel. It's still to this day probably the most unbelievable thing America ever accomplished.
I'm afraid it will never be replicated because America no longer has the fortitude to do it.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:42 am to joshnorris14
quote:
It's not the only WTF Marxist takeover. Mao's takeover as well, and most perplexing is the case of Cuba - where the Castro's and Ché fought Batista in the New York Times and Washington Post
If you rose Marx from the dead, maybe save for Japan, China and Russia would be the last 2 countries he would have guessed that went communist. He'd be absolutely shocked. He was pretty confident the first countries to go communist would be Germany, Britain, or America.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:42 am to Fat Bastard
Yes Nazis were Socialists.
The only difference in their socialism and the type in the Soviet union was:
Socialism in the Soviet Union was based on class.
Socialism in Nazi Germany was based on race. Natiionalistic race.
The only difference in their socialism and the type in the Soviet union was:
Socialism in the Soviet Union was based on class.
Socialism in Nazi Germany was based on race. Natiionalistic race.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:43 am to rmnldr
quote:
Hitler’s primary concern was the elimination of Jews and other undesirables. He saw communism as a result of Jews controlling Russia.
He did not want to allow Marxism to infest Germany.
Page 2 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News