Wagner boss says they lost 20,000 troops in Bakhmut

If they say they lost 20K troops, what does that mean the actual losses probably are?

His numbers are much higher than the ones provided by Russia. He and the Russian army are not on good terms.

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x 4 and you have a much more accurate number.

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I'll take things pulled from my arse for $100, Alex.

Moscow claimed 6K. Prigozhin is now saying 20K. Like virtually everyone else, I have no idea what to believe, but slapping a 4X value on there is pure speculation.

Prigozhin also claimed they were running out of ammo and leaving, then stayed to fight and win, but at what appears to be a pretty heavy cost. Then again, Prigozhin mostly recruited criminals and bagabons into his mercenary army; they aren't well-trained, so maybe Moscow doesn't really care how many die.

I hope Obama and the CIA are proud of their efforts to pro-Westernize Ukraine. Looks like it's working out well for everyone from Kyiv to Kazan.

And how many did Ukraine lose. Before we start the mantra of attacking forces lose more than the defenders, they were pitching bombs at them for months.

Keep in mind the Russian army has not been involved in this, they are fresh, fine, and ready to go.

I am surprised the board has not spoken about the insurgence into Russia of this Ukranian "rebel" group. UK just gave Ukraine missiles that can reach 250KM and soon to have F-16s.

You will all remember USSR gave missiles to Cuba and we tried to start WW3. There is some story about goose and gander....

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so maybe Moscow doesn't really care how many die.

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ding, ding, ding - we have a winner.

The Russians and their predecessors, the Soviets, were perfectly willing to sacrifice men to take an objective.

Marshal Zhukov ordered troops through a minefield; there is a well-known episode during the Battle of Rzhev in 1942 where Soviet troops were sent to assault heavily fortified German positions without waiting for the minefields to be cleared. This decision resulted in significant Soviet casualties.

It's likely more, but not exponentially more. Wagner is a private military group, and their numbers were reportedly 40-60K in Ukraine.

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The Russians and their predecessors, the Soviets, were perfectly willing to sacrifice men to take an objective.

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The NKVD machine gunners I once saw in a movie 20 years ago still freak me out. For those of you not aware, hundreds or thousands of grunts were told to charge a tough German position. A second set of secret police and political soldiers (the NKVD) were given machine guns and told to fire on any "traitors" that retreated.

Enemy At The Gates?

The most memorable scene to me was Kruschev showing up in Stalingrad to take over.

He walked up to the prior commanding officer, handed him a pistol, and suggested he may want to “cut through the red tape.”

Weren’t they all made up of criminals released from jail if they fought?

Seems like a win win if the above was really the case