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Started By
Message
re: Video of the shooter for those that haven’t seen it
Posted on 1/7/21 at 12:55 pm to The Melt
Posted on 1/7/21 at 12:55 pm to The Melt
quote:
If this is the use of force policy, do you still think this is a good shoot because she may get in the vicinity of "VIPs?"
It is reasonable to believe that the people they are protecting were in imminent danger from that mob. The standard allows them to use lethal force to protect other people as well as themselves.
quote:
DHS LEOs do not have a duty to retreat to avoid the reasonable use of
force, nor are they required to wait for an attack before using reasonable force to
stop a threat.
This is a mob chanting "Hang Mike Pence" as they are storming the capitol building where Mike Pence is.
LINK
It is also reasonable to assume that the members of Congress were in danger. You guys fully understand this of course. In the other threads showing members of Congress huddled in fear under their seats you'll say 'of course they should be afraid' and cheer the fact that they are in fear of their lives. It is blindingly obvious that this was a mob that was targeting them and the VP. Using lethal force to hold them back was reasonable.
2
Posted on 1/7/21 at 12:56 pm to frogglet
quote:
It is reasonable to believe that the people they are protecting were in imminent danger from that mob.
Where were the people they were protecting? Like 100 yards down the hall? Right behind the shooter? In the Capitol basement?
Posted on 1/7/21 at 12:58 pm to the808bass
quote:
The 10 cops on the other side of the window seemed to disagree.
The cops with rifles and body armor had literally just arrived from the stairwell. A few seconds later she was shot. The 3 officers who were shoved up against the wall were in no position to take control of that mob.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:00 pm to frogglet
quote:
quote:
If this is the use of force policy, do you still think this is a good shoot because she may get in the vicinity of "VIPs?"
It is reasonable to believe that the people they are protecting were in imminent danger from that mob. The standard allows them to use lethal force to protect other people as well as themselves.
quote:
DHS LEOs do not have a duty to retreat to avoid the reasonable use of
force, nor are they required to wait for an attack before using reasonable force to
stop a threat.
This is a mob chanting "Hang Mike Pence" as they are storming the capitol building where Mike Pence is.
LINK
It is also reasonable to assume that the members of Congress were in danger. You guys fully understand this of course. In the other threads showing members of Congress huddled in fear under their seats you'll say 'of course they should be afraid' and cheer the fact that they are in fear of their lives. It is blindingly obvious that this was a mob that was targeting them and the VP. Using lethal force to hold them back was reasonable.
State all of the facts that form your reasonableness claim. Weapons? Threats of harm? I didn't hear her or anyone in that hallway chanting anything. Did she previous harm someone?
There were cops on both sides of the door almost equal number of people in the hall. It wasn't like a 100 vs 1 situation. Fear isn't the same as reasonable of GREAT BODILY HARD OR DEATH. Even just reasonable fear of bodily harm isn't enough to use deadly force.
This post was edited on 1/7/21 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:04 pm to the808bass
quote:
Leading protesters in and then being surprised you can’t control them isn’t an inspiring move.
What I think was happening, is that type of people who entered the Capital yesterday are normal, rule following, law abiding citizens. The police recognized that and didn't overly press them back. That led to a nonchalant attitude toward the protestors, and a "they know we are good people and will not hurt us" mentality. But the more people that entered and the further they got into the building, lead to a moment that ended in lost of a life. That many people in The Capital easily could have decided to stay in there and prohibit Government affairs, (even if a lot of us would like that). A mob mentality, and good people getting caught up in the moment could have lead to actual insurrection. We should count ourselves lucky with the lost of only one person.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:08 pm to The Melt
quote:
There were cops on both sides of the door almost equal number of the people in the hall. It wasn't like a 100 vs 1 situation.
It was very much a hundred to 1 situation. There were hundreds if not thousands of them already in the capitol building. They had already gotten to the 2nd floor, while congress was being ushered to the 3rd floor. I'm not really going to spend more time explaining reality to you people. I'm long past the point of being surprised at your ability to deny it.
Just as a little thought experiment to see how off the rails you are, what if a group of thousands of antifa protestors had breached the White House and were breaking through barriers to the Oval Office? While the first family was still in the process of being secured?
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:10 pm to frogglet
quote:
The cops with rifles and body armor had literally just arrived from the stairwell. A few seconds later she was shot. The 3 officers who were shoved up against the wall were in no position to take control of that mob.
And another 5 had just left. There’s no way to square the laissez faire attitude of the cops on her side of the barricade with the deadly force on the other side.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:15 pm to frogglet
quote:
It was very much a hundred to 1 situation. There were hundreds if not thousands of them already in the capitol building. They had already gotten to the 2nd floor, while congress was being ushered to the 3rd floor. I'm not really going to spend more time explaining reality to you people. I'm long past the point of being surprised at your ability to deny it.
Just as a little thought experiment to see how off the rails you are, what if a group of thousands of antifa protestors had breached the White House and were breaking through barriers to the Oval Office? While the first family was still in the process of being secured?
I kindly asked you to state all of the facts and you refuse. That's on you.
You still haven't articulated the reasonableness of the use deadly force. The words ONLY and SHALL are very important words you just want to skip over. That officer has to meet the criteria to use deadly force and I still haven't seen that yet. Being outnumbered is not reason enough. It would be a different story if she had a pipe and was yelling she was going to kill someone or but she didn't. You don't get to change the rules to fit your narrative.
I have yet to find anywhere that says use of deadly force is acceptable beyond a certain point in a certain building or in order to protect certain people.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:17 pm to roadGator
I agree with this and I think other do too. We all try to figure out the threshold for the need of law and order with the burden of tyranny. 808bass and I are always on different sides of police shootings. I know he is on the Right though. A healthy respect and skepticism of police is certainly needed. I think the police are arrogant pricks for the most part, but have found myself siding with them on every high profile shooting I can think of.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:35 pm to the808bass
quote:
There’s no way to square the laissez faire attitude of the cops on her side of the barricade with the deadly force on the other side.
The officers who left were the ones I was referring to who were shoved up against the wall initially. They seemed to be overpowered and in no position to fight the mob. According to the interview the kid in the blue hoodie gave afterwards though, both the cops and the secret service on the other side warned them not to cross the barrier.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:40 pm to tigerskin
LOL at the people in this thread crucifying the officer for this. if it was BLM y’all would be celebrating your asses off and justifying the shite out of it, but since it was a MAGA white bitch now it’s a problem.
blue lives matter! back the blue!!!
blue lives matter! back the blue!!!
Posted on 1/7/21 at 1:42 pm to NorthTxLSU
That is straight murder
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:00 pm to NorthTxLSU
quote:
LOL at the people in this thread crucifying the officer for this. if it was BLM y’all would be celebrating your asses off and justifying the shite out of it, but since it was a MAGA white bitch now it’s a problem.
blue lives matter! back the blue!!!
Naw, we can generally agree that shooting unarmed persons that are not an immediate threat is wrong, regardless of faction or race. Most shootings between the police and black persons, not all but most, involve the black person being armed and at least approaching police or reaching for a weapon. There is a very large differece here and the "importance" of the person or people the officer was guarding shouldn't matter in terms of reasonableness and the use of deadly force policy. I haven't seen anything stating the rules are different because it's the capitol.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:19 pm to CaptSpaulding
Exactly my thoughts too. Looters should be shot. I bet the crowd would disperse and millions/billions in damage prevented.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:39 pm to tigerskin
Why is there armed security on both sides of the door?
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:39 pm to the808bass
quote:
reasonably afraid.” Not just afraid.
Is that a real term? Not even fricking with you I am asking. Silly as hell if it is.
Isn’t unreasonable fear, paranoia??
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:43 pm to frogglet
quote:
The cops with rifles and body armor had literally just arrived from the stairwell.
No they hadn't. They were literally mingling with the protestors, watching while they started banging down the barricade, and then started down the stairs when the shot was fired. They doubled back to the scene once she hit the ground. They had been there the entire time.
This post was edited on 1/7/21 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:46 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Is that a real term?
Yeah. The modifier “reasonable” is in almost every self-defense law in the country.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:46 pm to tigerskin
Looks like another black man shootin' whitie.
That's why nothing will happen.
Posted on 1/7/21 at 2:48 pm to the808bass
quote:
quote:
but if it was to protect the people on the other side of that door.
What people?
Protect from what?
As I said, not sure what his job was but if there was something or people his job required him to protect then he did that.
100% Trump supporter but sorry you had no business entered and climbing through criminal behavior.
There were legitimate actions going on which supported the true cause moving forward. This conduct gave the libs all they needed for the next four years.
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