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re: Vaccinated being as contagious as non should gut the argument for mandates
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:03 pm to ChapelHillSooner
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:03 pm to ChapelHillSooner
How do they even know what variant a person has? I was under the impression that the test you get at a local doctors office just gives a positive or negative result not the strain
1
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:06 pm to ChapelHillSooner
quote:Oh please. Unless you go back and try to edit your post, you CLEARLY did not know that Delta was basically all that's out there and in fact, you assumed the opposite.
That is not the point. The point was that people took a study that said "vaccinated people with breakthrough cases with the delta variant have 251 times the viral load than with other variants" and misrepresented it as "vaccinated people with breakthrough cases with the delta variant have 251 times the viral load as unvaccinated people."
quote:Your point is moving more than a fat girl's arse
I am not denying that delta is more challenging for vaccinations than other variants nor that delta isn't by far the most prominent variant. Neither of these facts have anything to do with my point.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:06 pm to CubsFanBudMan
For those downvoting my comment about vaxxed hospitalizations having worse outcomes than the non-vaxxed, here are some numbers from LDH. The first is one I had saved from last month. The second is the current dashboard. Cases and deaths percentages usually get updated on Wednesdays.
Please explain how the percentage of not fully vaccinated cases and hospitalizations are always higher than the % of deaths. People aren't becoming fully vaccinated while in the hospital, unless they tested positive and got hospitalized within 2 weeks of getting the second dose but died after the 14 day waiting period is over.
Please explain how the percentage of not fully vaccinated cases and hospitalizations are always higher than the % of deaths. People aren't becoming fully vaccinated while in the hospital, unless they tested positive and got hospitalized within 2 weeks of getting the second dose but died after the 14 day waiting period is over.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:11 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
Say what?
I'll admit that I do not have a study backing this up.
But of the people I interact with and the ones I have seen on Facebook, anti-vax people are almost always anti-mask. The vaccinated people I know still wear masks inside the majority of the time.
Anecdotal? Sure but you would have a hard time convincing me that it isn't true.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:12 pm to crewdepoo
quote:
90% of hospital visits are non vaxed. /thread
That's the number they are putting out. Harvard did a study with the VA and found that the definition of a covid hospitalization is someone with covid not for covid. They found patients that were there for cancer treatments, injuries, unrelated illnessea, scheduled treatments but were classified as covid because they happen to test positive for the virus. Those that were in for the BAM infusion, remdesevir and other monoclonal antibody treatments were also classified as covid hospitalizations even though it is a treatment and only for one hour and then sent home. 48% of covid hospitalizations are unrelated to covid.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:14 pm to ChapelHillSooner
quote:
anti-vax mandate people are almost always anti-mask mandate
FIFY.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:16 pm to bayoudude
quote:
How do they even know what variant a person has? I was under the impression that the test you get at a local doctors office just gives a positive or negative result not the strain
They do more thorough tests random samples of people in different geographic areas.
If you test a large enough sample you can be assured the actual percentages are withing a very narrow window of what was in the sample. The sample doesn't have to be very large as long as you are truly capturing a randomized group of people.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:20 pm to SuperDad
quote:
Oh please. Unless you go back and try to edit your post, you CLEARLY did not know that Delta was basically all that's out there and in fact, you assumed the opposite.
I did not assume the opposite. I have known for a while that delta has been the dominant strain.
I knew that it was quickly going to be the dominant strain as soon as we learned it was many times more contagious (a higher R0) than the original strains because an exponential curve that has a higher factor in the exponent will quickly overtake the other exponential curves even when the others have a huge head start.
You assumed that I assumed the opposite because you didn't understand the point I was making.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:27 pm to SuperDad
quote:Point out anyone here that is for mandates
That's how pathetically you guys are hanging on to your mandates.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:29 pm to CubsFanBudMan
quote:
Please explain how the percentage of not fully vaccinated cases and hospitalizations are always higher than the % of deaths. People aren't becoming fully vaccinated while in the hospital, unless they tested positive and got hospitalized within 2 weeks of getting the second dose but died after the 14 day waiting period is over.
Pretty easy. Vaccinated people who have breakthrough infections are likely to have compromised immune systems. That is why they had breakthrough infections to begin with.
Obviously, in both groups when you select hospitalized people, you are getting a higher percentage of people with prior health issues than the population at large. However, when you select only people with breakthrough infections, you are targeting a population even more likely to have serious health issues.
This post was edited on 9/21/21 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:31 pm to crewdepoo
if 90% are unvaccinated in the hospital and people aren't counted as vaccinated until after some bullshite 14 or so days after their second shot, and people are being hospitalized for the shot but labeled as unvaccinated for not meeting the bullshite or so 14 days to count as vaccinated, how can anyone think this shite isn't one big bullshite shitshow.
This post was edited on 9/21/21 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:35 pm to SuperDad
quote:
But if the only benefit to being vaccinated is that you are personally less likely to get a bad case of COVID, but you're still just as contagious, what's the argument for forcing someone else to get vaccinated?
Because those people are much more likely to get hospitalized. More people in hospitals = fewer hospital beds for other things without vaccines.
Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:36 pm to phutureisyic
quote:
They are going to say from keeping the hospitals overloaded with patients. Not enough personnel to handle it.
And how have the hospitals decided to handle staffing shortages? By mandating vaccinations for hospital staff and now they’re losing experienced nurses and other medical professionals because they don’t want the hokey pokey.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:37 pm to RIP turd ferguson
Any thoughts on Israel's situation ?
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:40 pm to DingleBarry
quote:
if 90% are unvaccinated in the hospital and people aren't counted as vaccinated until after some bull shite 14 or so days after their second shot, and people are being hospitalized for the shot but labeled as unvaccinated for not meeting the bull shite or so 14 days to count as vaccinated, how can anyone think this shite isn't one big bull shite shitshow.
Waiting 14 days after the second vaccine isn't bull shite. It takes a while for you body to build up the immunity. Scientists have determined that 14 days is long enough for that to happen.
As far as throwing off the statistics, we have been dealing with COVID for over a year and a half. The percentage of people who get hospitalized in that two week window isn't going to be enough to make any significant difference in the numbers.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:42 pm to ChapelHillSooner
quote:
Show me the study that states this.
CDC LINK
quote:
Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
It's also important to remember that in May the CDC changed the criteria for breakthrough cases to count only those that result in hospitalization or death. Almost seems like they don't want to know how many vaccinated people are spreading COVID.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:44 pm to ChapelHillSooner
quote:
I did not assume the opposite. I have known for a while that delta has been the dominant strain.
I knew that it was quickly going to be the dominant strain as soon as we learned it was many times more contagious (a higher R0) than the original strains because an exponential curve that has a higher factor in the exponent will quickly overtake the other exponential curves even when the others have a huge head start.
You assumed that I assumed the opposite because you didn't understand the point I was making.
Bull shite
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:45 pm to SuperDad
quote:
Shouldn't that just revert back to "you take what risk you're willing to take and I'll take what risk I'm willing to take"?
You would be correct if this had anything to do with healthcare or safety at this point.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:51 pm to SuperDad
quote:
Bull shite
Nice. That argument should qualify you for Mensa.
Anyway, go read my original post that started this interaction and try your hardest to understand it. If that is possible, you will see that nothing in that argument is dependent on whether or not delta is the dominant strain.
The entire point was "as compared to original strains" vs "as compared to unvaccined people" are two different statements with very different meaning.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 3:56 pm to ChapelHillSooner
SuperDad,
I will quote my original post. If you go back and look, that post has not been edited.
Now, your homework is, explain why the prevalence of the delta variant is not relevant to the points made in the quoted text.
I think you can do this. I have faith in you.
Edit: Someone did in fact show me the other study that I was asking for. It is a different study than the one I am referring to above.
I will quote my original post. If you go back and look, that post has not been edited.
quote:
Show me the study that states this.
The only study I know of is about vaccinated people with delta infections having higher viral loads than with other variants.
Unfortunately with that study people leave of the "than with other variants" and try to convince people that vaccinated people have higher viral loads than unvaccinated people.
Now, your homework is, explain why the prevalence of the delta variant is not relevant to the points made in the quoted text.
I think you can do this. I have faith in you.
Edit: Someone did in fact show me the other study that I was asking for. It is a different study than the one I am referring to above.
This post was edited on 9/21/21 at 3:58 pm
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