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Using the terms “just” and “unjust” to describe economic outcomes/wealth inequality

Posted on 6/19/26 at 5:44 pm
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
74431 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 5:44 pm
FA Hayek argued, in my view persuasively, that it makes no sense to characterize market economies and income distribution as just or unjust. For example, we commonly see Keynesian and left wing economists claim wealth distribution is unjust.

Here is why Hayek rejected the usage of those terms:

quote:

F.A. Hayek famously argued that the market's distribution of income and wealth is neither just nor unjust. Because a free market is an unplanned, spontaneous order—driven by millions of individual choices—no person or central planner is responsible for the outcome, making the concepts of "fairness" or "justice" meaningless when applied to it


quote:

Hayek argued that the moral labels "just" or "unjust" can only apply to deliberate human actions. Since no one intentionally designs the overall wealth distribution in a market, it cannot be called unjust, regardless of how unequal it may be.








In the context of Elon Musk, his trillion dollar net worth is entirely due to millions of individual stock traders bidding on shares that he happens to own. It’s an impersonal, unguided, spontaneous activity of economic individuals engaging in transactions with others. It makes no sense to claim this activity is just or unjust.


If you found a Stradivarius violin in a building you bought, would your subsequent $10 million dollar net worth be unjust? It is the result of individuals bidding for the violin you found. The same logic applies to stocks, bonds, companies, and billionaires
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
479263 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 5:46 pm to
Using just or unjust to describe economic outcomes for people is stupid

However, high gas prices are unjust
Posted by Smeg
Member since Aug 2018
15892 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 5:47 pm to
Liberals think that you keeping your own money is "unjust".

They also believe that taking your money away from you and giving it to themselves is "just".

It's as simple as that.
Posted by Ingeniero
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2013
23264 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 5:48 pm to
quote:

Using the terms “just” and “unjust” to describe economic outcomes/wealth inequality


Marxist bullshite
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
174705 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 5:51 pm to
quote:



Marxist bullshite

I agree. But that doesn't make someone like Musk someone of pure morals

He routinely violated the clean air act and endangered the health of thousands of people. That is unjust.
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49503 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:13 pm to
Imagine being so economically illiterate that you think grocery and home prices are high because of the value of Elon Musk’s companies and not the Federal Reserves money printing machine resulting in Joe Biden’s record inflation rate.
Posted by 844_Tiger
Down_Under
Member since Jul 2021
754 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

Using the terms “just” and “unjust” to describe economic outcomes/wealth inequality

"It is unjust that I can't play for a team in the NBA,sure I was not born with the athetic ability to play at the higher levels of the sport, but its still UNJUST, and because of this injustice, I DEMAND that I be given a contract to play for any NBA that I desire and be given equal pay as the guy that scores 40 points and gets 15 rebounds a game.In fact, I demand that 50% of all NBA rosters be filled with other guys with poor athletic ability to right this injustice. We DEMAND equality"

See how stupid that sounds
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
40126 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:23 pm to
quote:

Federal Reserves money printing machine resulting in Joe Biden’s record inflation rate.




You left someone off the ledger of responsibility there, bub
Posted by Pragmatist2025
Member since Jun 2025
1341 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:24 pm to
I would be ok with the IRS to ‘just’ quit sending us bullshite letters of inquiry. It’s on par for us with getting selected for the jury duty pool.

(It is my fault though for telling them to frick themselves after the first idiotic request…FYI, don’t do that)
Posted by TheBeezer
Texas
Member since Apr 2013
2274 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:30 pm to
*SlowFloPro

Having to see your posts on here is unjust.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
174705 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:33 pm to
quote:



You left someone off the ledger of responsibility there, bub

Right. All the pandemic spending was Biden's fault. As were the supply chain disruptions. He was not a good president. Blaming everything on him is ignorant.
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
40126 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:39 pm to
Right

The memory-holing of who was actually president when the pandemic started - and the guy who cranked that money printer and put a shitload of gas in it - is insane.
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49503 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:40 pm to
I’m not blaming everything on him; I pointed out, correctly, that we experienced record inflation during his administration.

The Federal Reserve has been out of control for a while.

And the main point stands - Musk, Bezos, etc. have absolutely no negative effect on the price of goods and services for average Americans. In fact, they probably are responsible for easier access to cheaper goods.

The whole “eat the rich” narrative is red meat to the economically dysfunctional.
Posted by Speckhunter2012
Lake Charles
Member since Dec 2012
8783 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:41 pm to
quote:

Using just or unjust to describe economic outcomes for people is stupid



All men are created equal, right? And yet not all men can manage themselves to succeed and overcome life's challenges and battles that we all face on different levels and personal to the individual. I had to earn and work my way through college. Do I owe someone who had advantages and either did not use them or squandered their opportunity?

quote:

However, high gas prices are unjust


Yeah, they suck. Agreed. But if high gas prices are making or breaking someone that may spend $10-$20 more dollars filling up their car that should last at least a few days, that is a you problem and not a me problem if you cannot manage that.
Posted by Neutral Underground
Member since Mar 2024
3602 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:42 pm to
Honestly, I am more upset with companies setting up cartels and screwing over the everyday man. Planned obsolescence. They used to make things way better back in the day. Now they purposely make them crappy so you have to keep repurchasing products. I do think that its possible for businesses to be greedy and screw over the every day working Joe. Private equity does it all the time. I just can't get mad for someone like Elon, Edison, Ford for being wealthy. They revolutionize a product or industry and they are thanked handsomely for it. If you want to crucify someone like Martin Skrelli or the gas station owner who gauges their prices during times of need. I can get behind that.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
479263 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:44 pm to
The gas price comment is a joke towards OP
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
91590 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:46 pm to
Almost 140 Corky!
Posted by RohanGonzales
Pronoun: Whatever
Member since Apr 2024
11294 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 6:55 pm to
quote:

Using just or unjust to describe economic outcomes for people is stupid

However, high gas prices are unjust


clown gonna clown, doesn't understand "risk"
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
74431 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 7:03 pm to
You and I used to be on the same page on economics

Both partial to the Austrian/neoclassical school

Then you changed and went back to your early 2000s Keynesian
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
479263 posts
Posted on 6/19/26 at 7:06 pm to
quote:

Then you changed and went back to your early 2000s Keynesian

No I didn't

quote:

You and I used to be on the same page on economics

Both partial to the Austrian/neoclassical school


Let's review the tape:



For those who don't know, Thomas Massie was one of the few small government libertarians in US government who still promoted this economic model HHTM is referencing.

He thought that pol losing was more important than Hillary Clinton losing in 2016 or Kamala in 2024...two Leftists.

He also believes in using US funds and lives to protect a foreign state
This post was edited on 6/19/26 at 7:08 pm
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